What did Jesus mean when he said...

[Old_Scratch]

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news." (Mark 1.15)

In the gospels, Jesus clearly believes that something big is about to happen very soon. In Matthiew 24.29-44 he says that this great event will happen suddenly and before his generation would pass away. But what exactly is this event?

At first glance it appears he's describing the end of the world since he also states "Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not." I think though that the Jews of his time would see him has describing the messianic age, with Jesus as the messiah, which would usher in all sorts of great happenings for the Jews. Or is the believed immediate arrival of the "Son of Man" or the "Kingdom of God" something entirely different?

[Taiji]

'Now is the time, this is the kingdom of god; so say you're sorry, and suck it up'

There you have it in modern speak... I'm getting good at this

[blackwatersix]

Well, at least according to catholic interpretation, he meant the salvation of mankind, with his death. the explanation is quite long and debatable and would turn this thread into a warzone in no time at all.

[Copperknickers II]

Indeed. He is talking about his sacrifice that is the basis of all Christianity - Christ died for our sins so we can get into heaven (as long as we repent).

[Thalassocrat]

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news." (Mark 1.15)

In the gospels, Jesus clearly believes that something big is about to happen very soon. In Matthiew 24.29-44 he says that this great event will happen suddenly and before his generation would pass away. 1) But what exactly is this event?

At first glance it appears he's describing the end of the world since he also states "Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not." 2) I think though that the Jews of his time would see him has describing the messianic age, with Jesus as the messiah, which would usher in all sorts of great happenings for the Jews. 3) Or is the believed immediate arrival of the "Son of Man" or the "Kingdom of God" something entirely different?

From what I see you are asking 3 questions

1) read Matthiew 24:3 they were asking about the end of the world. though some interpret it as the destruction of Jerusalem and the exile of Jews
2) yes, that was why HE was executed, it was feared he would lead an armed mod against Roman authority and the Romans would wiped their country off the face of the earth
3) yes, a second coming

[Old_Scratch]

From what I see you are asking 3 questions

1) read Matthiew 24:3 they were asking about the end of the world. though some interpret it as the destruction of Jerusalem and the exile of Jews

They're asking about the end of the age, not the world. This makes sense if they believed that the messianic age was at hand.

Well, at least according to catholic interpretation, he meant the salvation of mankind, with his death. the explanation is quite long and debatable and would turn this thread into a warzone in no time at all.

Indeed. He is talking about his sacrifice that is the basis of all Christianity - Christ died for our sins so we can get into heaven (as long as we repent).

I don't really find Christian interpretations of this to be entirely accurate, since neither Jesus nor his followers were Christian. I think that it should probably be analyzed from a Jewish perspective. It was after all Jewish prophesies that Jesus was trying to fulfill in order to become the Jewish messiah.

[Thalassocrat]

1) They're asking about the end of the age, not the world. This makes sense if they believed that the messianic age was at hand.



2) I don't really find Christian interpretations of this to be entirely accurate, since neither Jesus nor his followers were Christian. I think that it should probably be analyzed from a Jewish perspective. It was after all Jewish prophesies that Jesus was trying to fulfill in order to become the Jewish messiah.

Most Bibles say world

2) Your phrase, "It was after all Jewish prophesies that Jesus was trying to fulfill in order to become the Jewish messiah" already implies you don't believe His divinity.....



WE ARE TRYING TO PROVE JESUS TO A POSTER WHOSE AVATAR AND NICK IS OF THE DEVIL

[Old_Scratch]

Most Bibles say world

The NRSV says "age".

2) Your phrase, "It was after all Jewish prophesies that Jesus was trying to fulfill in order to become the Jewish messiah" already implies you don't believe His divinity.....

No, I do not, am I not allowed to study him though? Also, I'm not asking anyone to "prove" Jesus to me, I'm analyzing what Jesus meant when he talked about the immediate arrival of the kingdom of heaven.

Christians are a denomination of Jews, who believe Jesus updated Judaism with God's new message of forgiveness and confessing your sins. Also they believe Jesus was the son of God and therefore equal to/one with Him, for some reason best known to the council of Nicaea.

This is exactly one of the differences between Christians and the Jewish followers of Jesus that I'm talking about. "Son of god" does not imply divinity and is use for various purposes throughout the bible. It's used to describe angels, lesser deities, or other such spirits, also the Israelites were refereed to as the sons of god. In the context of Jesus though, the descendant kings of David's line, including David himself were called son of god. This is important since one of the messianic requirements was that he had to be a king of the line of David. So it would be proper for Jesus to consider himself the son of god and "the King of the Jews" while not implying divinity. The idea that Jesus was both the son of god and god himself was a concept added later by Christians.

you can't really fault their accuracy without claiming that the Jews are correct and Christians are wrong.

As I pointed out in the previous paragraph, there are big differences to what Christians believe and what Jesus and his followers believed. That's why I don't feel the the modern Christian interpretation of this is accurate.

[Thalassocrat]

1) The NRSV says "age".

No, I do not, am I not allowed to study him though? Also, I'm not asking anyone to "prove" Jesus to me, 2) I'm analyzing what Jesus meant when he talked about the immediate arrival of the kingdom of heaven.

1) Can't account for that version
2) I DON'T think immediate is ever used

[MaximiIian]

It's an apocalyptic quote. Mind, at the time, his followers thought the world was going to end "soon", i.e. within their lifetime. Jesus' message was, like many other messiah claimants, very apocalyptic; very much with the fire-and-brimstone, actually.

But, as the times changed, and the world didn't end, this sentiment was reinterpreted. Which, before people who believe in Jesus' message leap down my throat, isn't a bad thing; interpretation and reinterpretation is necessary if a religion is to survive.
And survival is one thing that Early Christianity did handily.

[Old_Scratch]

It's an apocalyptic quote. Mind, at the time, his followers thought the world was going to end "soon", i.e. within their lifetime. Jesus' message was, like many other messiah claimants, very apocalyptic; very much with the fire-and-brimstone, actually.

It certainly seems as such, and it's what I thought so at first reading. But I think I might have imposed some modern concepts on it that would have been unfamiliar with the Jews at that time. For example, even in the book of Revelation, the world doesn't end. After all the terrible things happen, a new Jerusalem is delivered from heaven, complete with walls, gates and the tree of life, for people to dwell in. Unclean people aren't allowed to enter though.

So then, wouldn't Jesus have just been talking about a new age of the messiah where people will live forever and Jerusalem will be free of its enemies? I think that this is something that his followers would have been familiar with as those are a few of the many requirements that the messiah had to fulfill.

[MaximiIian]

It certainly seems as such, and it's what I thought so at first reading. But I think I might have imposed some modern concepts on it that would have been unfamiliar with the Jews at that time. For example, even in the book of Revelation, the world doesn't end. After all the terrible things happen, a new Jerusalem is delivered from heaven, complete with walls, gates and the tree of life, for people to dwell in. Unclean people aren't allowed to enter though.

Well, I think the Book of Revelation was part of that shift when early Christians realised that, no, the world wasn't going to end anytime soon. So, it was written partly as an attempt to make Jesus' apocalyptic quotes make sense; and partly as a thinly-veiled political jab at the Roman Empire. Of course, within Christianity, it's seen a revealed divine vision, presumably to clarify the aforementioned discrepancies; though some major Christian theologians, like Martin Luther, saw it as mad ramblings.

[Thalassocrat]

Well, I think the Book of Revelation was part of that shift when early Christians realised that, no, the world wasn't going to end anytime soon. So, it was written partly as an attempt to make Jesus' apocalyptic quotes make sense; and partly as a thinly-veiled political jab at the Roman Empire. Of course, within Christianity, it's seen a revealed divine vision, presumably to clarify the aforementioned discrepancies; though some major Christian theologians, like Martin Luther, saw it as mad ramblings.

For such claims citations are in order, unless they are also "mad ramblings"

[MaximiIian]

For such claims citations are in order, unless they are also "mad ramblings"

What claims? I'm stating a fact: Jesus' apocalyptic statements make no sense without the Book of Revelation there to clarify things. Since it came about a bit later than the Four Gospels, what else are we supposed to deduce?

[Dr. Croccer]

His death and resurrection, which meant the cleansing of human sin, most probably.

[Remember1843]

Everybody will meet an "end of the world" from personal view
I believe he refers to indivduals mainly.
The original word for "end" in scripts also means purpose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telos_(philosophy)) combined means the acomplish of the purpose (not necessary a destruction)
In spiritual way you realize what is all about(an absolute consciousness) and this happens usually (and unfortunately) after a phase of great depression.And what else could be such thing? The most critical moment in every individual's life ....the last one...
Like someone said: life is a preparation for death

[Copperknickers II]

Christians are Jews. Today's Jews are not the Jews who followed Jesus, because they do not believe in Jesus' words. Already before Jesus had died, Christianity had been born.

[blackwatersix]

I think it's more of Christians were Jews who converted. I really don't know what jews meant this as, but from what I understand from my jewish friends, Jesus to them is another prophet and not the messiah.

[Copperknickers II]

Christians are a denomination of Jews, who believe Jesus updated Judaism with God's new message of forgiveness and confessing your sins. Also they believe Jesus was the son of God and therefore equal to/one with Him, for some reason best known to the council of Nicaea.

Jesus wanted his followers to be Jews who followed his teachings. The people that did follows his teachings were named the Christians. They have many different ways of interpreting things, but you can't really fault their accuracy without claiming that the Jews are correct and Christians are wrong.

[Thalassocrat]

1) Christians are a denomination of Jews, 2) who believe Jesus updated Judaism with God's new message of forgiveness and confessing your sins. Also they believe Jesus was the son of God and therefore equal to/one with Him, 3) for some reason best known to the council of Nicaea.

1) By that logic so are Muslims
2) that is an extreme is not incorrect over simplification
3) no reason to be sarcastic

It certainly seems as such, and it's what I thought so at first reading. But I think I might have imposed some modern concepts on it that would have been unfamiliar with the Jews at that time. For example, even in the book of Revelation, the world doesn't end. After all the terrible things happen, a new Jerusalem is delivered from heaven, complete with walls, gates and the tree of life, for people to dwell in. Unclean people aren't allowed to enter though.

So then, wouldn't Jesus have just been talking about a new age of the messiah where people will live forever and Jerusalem will be free of its enemies? I think that this is something that his followers would have been familiar with as those are a few of the many requirements that the messiah had to fulfill.

"a new heaven and new earth" the old ones are destroy and a new one remade. Bare in mind this is the interpretation of St. John of a vision so we can't accept it as literal.