Ci Sono Italiani Qua? O gente che parla Italiano?

**Space_Ed** · November 14, 2009, 07:07 AM

Are there any Italians here who know a lot about the evolution of the Italian language with respect to place naming? I'd like to confer with someone who knows a lot about medieval Italy on the current naming system for the settlements and provinces for the map.

**Poetarmato** · November 17, 2009, 08:31 AM

se vedi in giro forse qualcuno lo trovi......

**Santelia** · November 17, 2009, 08:37 AM

Feel free to ask anything you need. Don't be afraid of asking too much.

P.S.: the thread title has a heavy grammar mistake... After the word "gente" you have to use the singular person. so "...gente che parla italiano".

EDIT: Corrected the title. Resurrection

**Space_Ed** · November 17, 2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Santelia

Feel free to ask anything you need. Don't be afraid of asking too much.

P.S.: the thread title has a heavy grammar mistake... After the word "gente" you have to use the singular person. so "...gente che parla italiano".

EDIT: Corrected the title. Resurrection

Ok thanks. Anyway this is the current naming plan for Italy:

Reference Name / 1080 Name / Alternate Name (event trigger) / Alternate Name (event trigger) / Province Name

36, 90, Bonifacio / Bonifacio / Corsica

37, 89, Cagliari / Caralis / Caliari (1250) / Cagliari (1320) / Sardegna

38, 86, Palermo / Panormus / Palermo (1260) / Sicilia Occidentale

39, 82, Messina / Messana / Messina (1260) / Messini (B) / Sicilia Orientale

40, 92, Taranto / Tarentum / Taranto (1200) / Tarantas (B) / Puglia, Basilicata e Calabria

41, 79, Benevento / Beneventum / Benevento (1230) / Sannio

42, 78, Napoli / Neapoli / Napoli (1230) / Neapoli (B) / Campania

43, 77, Florence / Florentia / Florenza (1230) / Fiorenza (1300) / Firenze (1390) / Toscana

44, 75, Turin / Taurinorum / Torino (1220) / Turin (F) / Piemonte

45, 74, Milan / Mediolanum / Milano (1230) / Lombardia

46, 87, Verona / Verona / Triveneto

47, 76, Venice / Venetia / Venezia (1320) / Vèneto

48, 93, Reggio Emilia / Regium Lepidi / Reggio Emilia (1260) / Cispadana

49, 88, Bologna / Bononia / Bologna (1250) / Bolonia (B) / Emilia

50, 91, Ravenna / Ravenna / Romagna

51, 80, Pisa / Pisae / Pisa (1230) / Maremma

52, 83, Ancona / Ancona / Marche ed Abruzzo

53, 73, Rome / Roma / Lazio

54, 81, Genova / Genua / Genova (1290) / Gênes (F) / Liguria

The main thing I'm not satisfied with is the names of the provinces as they are in modern Italian. Can anyone suggest improvements to make the naming plan more historically accurate? The names of the settlements can change with date and culture but the names of the provinces can't.

An 'F' in brackets means the name of the city if the French take it and a 'B' in brackets means the name of the city if the Byzantines take it.

**Hax** · November 18, 2009, 02:43 AM

How did Italian evolve, according to you, in the Middle Ages?

I have some knowledge of Middle French, but I'm not even remotely specialized in Italian.

**Space_Ed** · November 18, 2009, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Elphir

How did Italian evolve, according to you, in the Middle Ages?

I have some knowledge of Middle French, but I'm not even remotely specialized in Italian.

Well I don't know much at all so this is why I'm asking Italians to help me out with it. But you can see my plan for how the names of the settlements have evolved.

**Giorgios** · November 18, 2009, 11:56 AM

You could use the Byzantine themata names for the Southern Italian provinces maybe, at least for the 1081 start date?

**Space_Ed** · November 19, 2009, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Giorgios

You could use the Byzantine themata names for the Southern Italian provinces maybe, at least for the 1081 start date?

Ah yeah thats actually really quite a good idea. I think I might do that actually. Yeah because the Sultinate of Rum's provinces are going to be named after the Byzantine themes too. So doing it for southern Italy would make a lot of sense.

**Space_Ed** · November 19, 2009, 09:42 AM

New Version:

Italia

36, 90, Bonifacio / Bonifacio / Corsica

37, 89, Cagliari / Caralis / Caliari (1250) / Cagliari (1320) / Sardinia

38, 86, Palermo / Panormus / Palermo (1260) / Sicilia Occidentale

39, 82, Messina / Messana / Messina (1260) / Messini (B) / Sicilia Orientale

40, 92, Taranto / Tarentum / Taranto (1200) / Tarantas (B) / Apulia, Lucania e Calabria

41, 79, Benevento / Beneventum / Benevento (1230) / Sannio

42, 78, Napoli / Neapoli / Napoli (1230) / Neapoli (B) / Liburia

43, 77, Florence / Florentia / Florenza (1230) / Fiorenza (1300) / Firenze (1390) / Tuscia

44, 75, Turin / Taurinorum / Torino (1220) / Turin (F) / Regio Transpadana

45, 74, Milan / Mediolanum / Milano (1230) / Longbardia

46, 87, Verona / Verona / Venetia

47, 76, Venice / Venetia / Venezia (1320) / Dogado

48, 93, Reggio Emilia / Regium Lepidi / Reggio Emilia (1260) / Regio Cispadana

49, 88, Bologna / Bononia / Bologna (1250) / Bolonia (B) / Emilia

50, 91, Ravenna / Ravenna / Romagna

51, 80, Pisa / Pisae / Pisa (1230) / Maremma

52, 83, Ancona / Ancona / Marca Anconitana

53, 73, Rome / Roma / Patrimonium Sancti Petri

54, 81, Genova / Genua / Genova (1290) / Gênes (F) / Liguria

**redinside** · November 18, 2009, 04:43 AM

..gli italiani sono ovunque eheh....

**Ultra_Magnus** · November 20, 2009, 05:57 PM

While I dont speak corsican I have been on holiday there a few times: Therefore I suggest adding a change of name when it is either rebel or if taken over by genoa. (to reflect the difference in the corsican name: Bunifaziu) Corisican is an ancient italian dialect derived from genoan so I think it is viable.

**Space_Ed** · November 21, 2009, 11:26 AM

New Version:

Italia

36, 90, Bonifacio / Bonifacio / Corsica

37, 89, Cagliari / Caralis / Caliari (1250) / Cagliari (1320) / Sardinia

38, 86, Palermo / Panormus / Palermo (1260) / Sicilia Occidentis

39, 82, Messina / Messana / Messina (1260) / Messini (B) / Sicilia Orientalis

40, 92, Taranto / Tarentum / Taranto (1200) / Tarantas (B) / Apulia, Lucania e Calabria

41, 79, Benevento / Beneventum / Benevento (1230) / Sannio

42, 78, Napoli / Neapoli / Napoli (1230) / Neapoli (B) / Liburia

43, 77, Florence / Florentia / Florenza (1230) / Fiorenza (1300) / Firenze (1390) / Tuscia

44, 75, Turin / Taurinorum / Torino (1220) / Turin (F) / Regio Transpadana

45, 74, Milan / Mediolanum / Milano (1230) / Longbardia

46, 87, Verona / Verona / Venetia

47, 76, Venice / Venetia / Venezia (1320) / Dogado

48, 93, Reggio Emilia / Regium Lepidi / Reggio Emilia (1260) / Regio Cispadana

49, 88, Bologna / Bononia / Bologna (1250) / Bolonia (B) / Emilia

50, 91, Ravenna / Ravenna / Romagna

51, 80, Pisa / Pisae / Pisa (1230) / Maremma

52, 83, Ancona / Ancona / Marca Anconitana

53, 73, Rome / Roma / Patrimonium Sancti Petri

54, 81, Genova / Genua / Genova (1290) / Gênes (F) / Liguria

**Lord Willy** · November 22, 2009, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ultra_Magnus

While I dont speak corsican I have been on holiday there a few times: Therefore I suggest adding a change of name when it is either rebel or if taken over by genoa. (to reflect the difference in the corsican name: Bunifaziu) Corisican is an ancient italian dialect derived from genoan so I think it is viable.

Good Idea

+ rep

**brennas** · December 20, 2009, 06:59 PM

I nomi dei cità e provenzas devono essere nei dialetti locali, vero? Io sono molto interesato a questa materia.

**Space_Ed** · December 20, 2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by brennas

I nomi dei cità e provenzas devono essere nei dialetti locali, vero? Io sono molto interesato a questa materia.

Certo. Penso che i nomi sono nei dialetti antichi adesso. Ma se hai un'altro suggerimento dirmi. Capisci? (Sono Inglese e non parlo Italiano perfettamente grazie)

Sei Spagnolo?

**brennas** · December 21, 2009, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Space_Ed

Certo. Penso che i nomi sono nei dialetti antichi adesso. Ma se hai un'altro suggerimento dirmi. Capisci? (Sono Inglese e non parlo Italiano perfettamente grazie)

Sei Spagnolo?

I don´t speak Italian at best too, my friend...I am more fluent on English