evangelist Tony Alamo gets 175 years for child sex offences

[Don in the North]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/971...ex-convictions

Former TV evangelist Tony Alamo has been sentenced to 175 years in prison for taking underage girls across US state lines for sex.
Alamo, original name Bernie Hoffman, was sentenced today in Texarkana, Arkansas.
US District Judge Harry Barnes listened to testimony from Alamo's victims before giving the 75-year-old the maximum time allowed by federal guidelines and effectively ordering that he spend the rest of his life behind bars.
The founder of Tony Alamo Christian Ministries took girls into his organisation as underage "brides".
Five women, aged between 17 and 33, testified in July that Alamo "married" them in private ceremonies while they were children.
One stated that he had wed girls as young as eight.
Alamo was sentenced for 10 separate counts and fined $US270,000.
Judge Barnes said the evangelist took advantage of his status as pastor and threatened the girls with "the loss of their salvation" if they did not cooperate.
He also told Alamo that he will one day face "a greater judge", and "may he have mercy on your soul."
Before the 175-year jail sentence was delivered, Alamo offered a brief statement to the court in which he praised God before adding: "I'm glad I'm me and not the deceived people in the world."
Alamo's lawyers indicated they will appeal the verdict, while a hearing is set for January 13 to determine whether the evangelist's victims will be paid restitution.
Alamo made millions through his ministry. He had a syndicated TV program during the 1970s in which he sung gospel songs in front of a large choir, while his wife Susan delivered the sermons.

sickening. seems alot of christians with "religion based power" end up abusing that power and making themselves out to be hypocrites.
take ted haggard for an example, then kevin horvind.
there are at least 5 other christian/sect dudes in the past 10-15 years whose names escape me right now, and thats NOT including the catholic priests, but the topic im trying to broach is>

why.

can any christian answer this for me without saying "they arent true christians" or "they got lost on the path to finding god". sure enough non religious people get arrested for similar crimes, but i would venture to say that its now a majority of preachers(includes catholic priests) that are guilty of this hypocritical deprevation of innocence and other despicable acts. what is it about having followers/power that makes them take advantage of everyone especially those who place enormous amounts of trust in them?

[Thalassocrat]

power corrupts.....universal rule of humanity

[Don in the North]

yet it plagues christianity much more than judiasm. islam isnt media orientated enough to establish anything factual at least from my perspective

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Thank God they are sentencing him for life. I'd rather see him executed, though, tbh. Child sex offenses should get the death penalty.

[Prodigal]

He's a TV evangelist, what do you expect?

[Arch-hereticK]

He's one of those guys who preaches for money. He was sick before he did anything.

[Shaio]

^ Id agree, tv evangelists arent really religious, there cult leaders to lazy to create there own cult and religion, so they become tv preachers for Christian religion, and take there money off Christians, rather then doing good hard work like a real cult leader, and finding/making converts themselves.

While i agree taking money from idiots is a noble cause in most cases, I absolutely deplore the unoriginality of of becoming tv preacher like that and mooching off already established religion, instead of having originality to design there own on cult, and religion.

Those who preach are often deaf to there own words.

[Helm]

So he will be back out on the streets by 2184? This is an outrage.

[Arch-hereticK]

So he will be back out on the streets by 2184? This is an outrage.

By then he'll probably have a bionic body...................it makes him an even more deadly sexual predator.

[Morkonan]

...can any christian answer this for me without saying "they arent true christians" or "they got lost on the path to finding god". sure enough non religious people get arrested for similar crimes, but i would venture to say that its now a majority of preachers(includes catholic priests) that are guilty of this hypocritical deprevation of innocence and other despicable acts.

Why ask for someone to answer and then put constraints on their answer?

Can you tell me what color the sky is without telling me it's blue? (Rhetorical question)

what is it about having followers/power that makes them take advantage of everyone especially those who place enormous amounts of trust in them?

What is it about anyone that abuses the power they have?

How many atheists have committed horrible crimes? Should I then conclude that "atheists with power are bloodthirsty savages?"

The guy was a disturbed individual. But, then again, there are lots of disturbed individuals out there and "religion" doesn't have a monopoly on them. Some people purposefully seek out power. For some, religion provides them that opportunity. But, that doesn't mean that religion, in and of itself, has some responsibility there. If someone seeks out power and becomes a politician or a revolutionary leader, does that somehow invalidate their political system because they abuse the power they gain? No, of course not.

We have to stop looking at such things with a double-standard. This man was obviously a hypocrite and a sick individual who manipulated the power he had to satiate himself. That is all. Just because he manipulated a religious forum to do that doesn't reflect on the religion itself. In order to go further, you'd have to examine the religion and find fault with it and determine that it dictated his behavior. I don't think you're making the claim here that his religion, whatever it was, dictated he should sexually molest little girls.

[Don in the North]

Why ask for someone to answer and then put constraints on their answer?

Can you tell me what color the sky is without telling me it's blue? (Rhetorical question)

simple. because i do not want to hear the same recycled BS for the 89177th time. they are generic rebuttals that hold no water, and are often knee jerk reactions.
i dont care for knee jerk reactions.

What is it about anyone that abuses the power they have?

How many atheists have committed horrible crimes? Should I then conclude that "atheists with power are bloodthirsty savages?"
ive yet to read of an atheist (or buddhist) neighbourhood/social group leader being arrested on paedophilic charges. notice im not talking about murder or killing, im talking about molestation.
The guy was a disturbed individual. But, then again, there are lots of disturbed individuals out there and "religion" doesn't have a monopoly on them. Some people purposefully seek out power. For some, religion provides them that opportunity. But, that doesn't mean that religion, in and of itself, has some responsibility there. If someone seeks out power and becomes a politician or a revolutionary leader, does that somehow invalidate their political system because they abuse the power they gain? No, of course not.

We have to stop looking at such things with a double-standard. This man was obviously a hypocrite and a sick individual who manipulated the power he had to satiate himself. That is all. Just because he manipulated a religious forum to do that doesn't reflect on the religion itself. In order to go further, you'd have to examine the religion and find fault with it and determine that it dictated his behavior. I don't think you're making the claim here that his religion, whatever it was, dictated he should sexually molest little girls.

yes he was a hypocrite and a sick individual.
i agree, but you are missing my point >
a large majority of the christian leadership now aspire to that description, catholicism and spin off sects included.

as for the dictation from his religion to molest girls, give it a year or two before he "speaks out" from jail. we will see what jesus, or even the mighty lol-satan, told him to do prior to his arrest.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Ok I just can't stay quite any longer.

simple. because i do not want to hear the same recycled BS for the 89177th time. they are generic rebuttals that hold no water, and are often knee jerk reactions.
i dont care for knee jerk reactions.

BS to you maybe but it's the truth, which apparently you said you just don't want to hear, which should by then already make this entire thread moot.

yes he was a hypocrite and a sick individual.
i agree, but you are missing my point >
a large majority of the christian leadership now aspire to that description, catholicism and spin off sects included.

Yea and so what? Atheists do it too (I made that quite clear in another thread). Are you trying to accuse that only Christian priests molest little girls? Even if not this is a seriously low blow that totally misses as an attack against religion, which it is blatantly obvious you are trying to do.

as for the dictation from his religion to molest girls, give it a year or two before he "speaks out" from jail. we will see what jesus, or even the mighty lol-satan, told him to do prior to his arrest.

Well no duh. People have been using the "God/Jesus/Satan/Allah/Einstein/Barney told me to do it!" line since, like, since like we could talk and understand we were about to be put in prison for a very long time. And you know what in times of desperate need most people turn to religion for one of two reasons: To actually try and change their lives for the good or just hide behind it and justify their actions. It's not religion's fault someone picked number 2.

So stop trying to attack religion with this totally over-used attempt and stop making these ridiculous assumptions about who rapes who more. Because it all boils down to people rape people, and religion just so happens to be a great scape-goat for one's actions.

[Don in the North]

Ok I just can't stay quite any longer.

oh the very mature "retaliation" thread wasnt enough. for the record, its guys with your attitude possessing this insatiable and uncontrollable need to strike back, rather than handle things like an adult, that give their beliefs such a bad name.
other than the paedo's of course. and the mass murders, inquisitors etc.

BS to you maybe but it's the truth, which apparently you said you just don't want to hear, which should by then already make this entire thread moot.
prove it please this isnt a kindergarden sandbox.
prove that these generic overused responses are the truth. show me something, anything to back up what you say. anything but baseless assumptions which you accuse me of yet here you are assuming yourself. prove the perpetrators lost their way, prove that they arent just seeking a power position in order to hypocriticly take advantage of their power, that someone like ted haggard GOOGLE HIM, can just snap his fingers and say he is cured and no christian bats an eyelid before completely forgetting anything ever happened.


Yea and so what? Atheists do it too (I made that quite clear in another thread). Are you trying to accuse that only Christian priests molest little girls? Even if not this is a seriously low blow that totally misses as an attack against religion, which it is blatantly obvious you are trying to do.
show me an atheist group or organization or a buddhist organization that has paedophilic or hypocritical law breakings. please.
what this is, is a question to real christians rather than angry teenagers who barely understand their religion; who can actually give me a concise answer to why their religion is so corrupted, yet have its organizational structure be so morally upstanding and infallible at the same time.





Well no duh. People have been using the "God/Jesus/Satan/Allah/Einstein/Barney told me to do it!" line since, like, since like we could talk and understand we were about to be put in prison for a very long time. And you know what in times of desperate need most people turn to religion for one of two reasons: To actually try and change their lives for the good or just hide behind it and justify their actions. It's not religion's fault someone picked number 2.
black and white world. if you think 2 reasons are the only reasons people adhere to religion then you are sorely mistaken . religion is not, never has been, and never will be, the only thing that can pull people out of desperate times, its all about readjusting their focus and having them be positive. god/jesus/allah dont actually do anything at all yet have such a profound negative affect in more cases than i can count.

So stop trying to attack religion with this totally over-used attempt and stop making these ridiculous assumptions about who rapes who more. Because it all boils down to people rape people, and religion just so happens to be a great scape-goat for one's actions.

they arent assumptions. check your troll-slash-retaliation-thread, plenty of links there for you to read and when youre done researching i have about 20892 other articles you can look at pertaining to the issue.


and please. calm down and think before you smash the keyboard buttons typing out a "retaliation".... this is not what the dnd is for, and certainly not what i come in here to read.

[Morkonan]

simple. because i do not want to hear the same recycled BS for the 89177th time. they are generic rebuttals that hold no water, and are often knee jerk reactions.
i dont care for knee jerk reactions.

If you don't like the answers, why ask the question?

yes he was a hypocrite and a sick individual.i agree, but you are missing my point >
a large majority of the christian leadership now aspire to that description, catholicism and spin off sects included.

I'm sorry but, you're wrong. You're saying out of the millions of people that would qualify as Christian "leaders" that the majority of them are pedophiles?

Sorry, but that's just a very obtuse statement. What you see are some well publicized cases. But, they are not a reflection of the leadership as a whole. Most of the cases involving serial killers are committed by whites. So, are the majority of white people serial killers?

Look at it this way: Some of these pedophiles used the trusting relationship of religious leadership to somehow empower and protect themselves while seeking out their desires. It's a sick, twisted thing but, it's no different than a supposed Boy Scout master using the same type of situation. Teachers, day-care workers, etc... Yet, are all teachers, day-care workers, Boy Scout troop leaders pedophiles? No, of course not!

as for the dictation from his religion to molest girls, give it a year or two before he "speaks out" from jail. we will see what jesus, or even the mighty lol-satan, told him to do prior to his arrest.

And what, exactly, would anything this pedophile had to say prove in the way of religion? Nothing. It's obvious why he did what he did - He had the motive and the opportunity to act out his sexual desires. No more, no less.

[Don in the North]

If you don't like the answers, why ask the question?

they arent answers. they are generic knee jerk responses which are made to preserve the reputation of a religion/group rather than address an issue and correct it.


I'm sorry but, you're wrong. You're saying out of the millions of people that would qualify as Christian "leaders" that the majority of them are pedophiles?
my statement with percentages was a sardonic reinterpretation of another users remarks combined with statistics pulled out of the exact same bodily crevice. just reversed polarity

Sorry, but that's just a very obtuse statement. What you see are some well publicized cases. But, they are not a reflection of the leadership as a whole. Most of the cases involving serial killers are committed by whites. So, are the majority of white people serial killers?

again a sardonic reinterpretation. and for the record, more and more "christian" leaders are becoming exposed for what they are. if you would endevour to bury your head in the sand like their believers, and enablers; that is entirely your perogorative, i will not berate you or others that share this "middleground" opinion.
just dont expect non-believers like myself to ignore facts and alarming rising trends as they rear their disgusting hypocritical heads.

Look at it this way: Some of these pedophiles used the trusting relationship of religious leadership to somehow empower and protect themselves while seeking out their desires. It's a sick, twisted thing but, it's no different than a supposed Boy Scout master using the same type of situation. Teachers, day-care workers, etc... Yet, are all teachers, day-care workers, Boy Scout troop leaders pedophiles? No, of course not!
teachers, day care workers, boyscout troopers do not have the influence of the leaders, making them a menacing, but less potent and somehow less common, threat. furthermore, these industries, at least in australia; require compulsary police checks. in religion, the only check people need is that they carry a bible in one of their pockets.
the difference is vast and frightening at the same time.
And what, exactly, would anything this pedophile had to say prove in the way of religion? Nothing. It's obvious why he did what he did - He had the motive and the opportunity to act out his sexual desires. No more, no less.

lets wait and see. ive no doubt this guy will play a religion card to win back some supporters and reputation. im placing 100 dollars that he will blame satan or evolution.
or both.

[Morkonan]

lets wait and see. ive no doubt this guy will play a religion card to win back some supporters and reputation. im placing 100 dollars that he will blame satan or evolution.
or both.

And, that would mean.. what, exactly?

He can say whatever he wishes. But, that doesn't mean any of it is necessarily true.

[Oldgamer]

sickening. seems alot of christians with "religion based power" end up abusing that power and making themselves out to be hypocrites.
take ted haggard for an example, then kevin horvind.
there are at least 5 other christian/sect dudes in the past 10-15 years whose names escape me right now, and thats NOT including the catholic priests, but the topic im trying to broach is>

why.

can any christian answer this for me without saying "they arent true christians" or "they got lost on the path to finding god". sure enough non religious people get arrested for similar crimes, but i would venture to say that its now a majority of preachers(includes catholic priests) that are guilty of this hypocritical deprevation of innocence and other despicable acts. what is it about having followers/power that makes them take advantage of everyone especially those who place enormous amounts of trust in them?

When I come back to the forums, tomorrow, I'll tell you some neat stories about the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation, since I lived about a mile from their compound, and was considered one of their chief enemies.

Just to whet your appetite, though, when Susan Alamo died, about 20 years ago, she was interred in a really nice little room, with a tv, a bed, a bathroom, and a phone. She needed the phone so that ... when she resurrected herself ... she could call the compound and have them send her a limo. Then, she and Tony would take over the world and rule it from Dyer, Arkansas (of all places).

Nope. They weren't Christians ... not in any way, shape, or form. Most of their money came from sending out their "converts" to work in area businesses, who then turned in their entire paycheck to the Foundation.

Why? Because they were allowed to get away it.

I guess that Tony isn't being allowed to get away with it, anymore, is he?

[Don in the North]

When I come back to the forums, tomorrow, I'll tell you some neat stories about the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation, since I lived about a mile from their compound, and was considered one of their chief enemies.

Just to whet your appetite, though, when Susan Alamo died, about 20 years ago, she was interred in a really nice little room, with a tv, a bed, a bathroom, and a phone. She needed the phone so that ... when she resurrected herself ... she could call the compound and have them send her a limo. Then, she and Tony would take over the world and rule it from Dyer, Arkansas (of all places).

Nope. They weren't Christians ... not in any way, shape, or form. Most of their money came from sending out their "converts" to work in area businesses, who then turned in their entire paycheck to the Foundation.

Why? Because they were allowed to get away it.

I guess that Tony isn't being allowed to get away with it, anymore, is he?

i look forward to the stories you mention, can i ask, did the alamos spread the word of jesus, and ask converts to accept jesus as their savior?

[Oldgamer]

i look forward to the stories you mention, can i ask, did the alamos spread the word of jesus, and ask converts to accept jesus as their savior?

Actually, they did ... but only in public. It was understand by cult members that Susan was the new Messiah. They taught that Jesus was the forerunner of Susan, and to accept Jesus as Savior was to accept Susan, as such.

Let's understand what a cult is. A cult is a religious group that is loosely based upon a larger faith (like Christianity), is centered upon the personality of one or more powerful people, and requires belief in the writings and teachings of the cult-leader, in addition to the Scriptures of the larger faith. By this definition, the Tony & Susan Alamo Christian Foundation met all of the criteria.

An interesting sidebar to this is that Christianity was a Jewish cult, many centuries ago. It takes a long time for a cult to mature into a religion. If the Alamo cult had the time to mature into a religion, it would no longer be Christian, anymore than Islam is a Christian religion (in spite of accepting the Christian Scriptures).

It was in the time I came to know the "Alamos" that I learned the techniques of deprogramming cult-members. However, this was only done by me when someone showed a desire to get out of the cult. I would never force my beliefs on someone who wasn't ready.

The cult also owned many businesses in the area, where the members worked only for their bed and food. These were located in Dyer, Alma, Van Buren, and Fort Smith, as I recall.

@cfmonkey45
Nope. I live in Illinois, right now. I lived in Dyer, Arkansas, while I was pursuing my Associate's Degree at Westark Community College, in Fort Smith.

[cfmonkey45]

Yeah, this guy routinely has his followers litter my car with tracts saying how the Catholic Church and US government are in a conspiracy to do x and y. If I recall correctly, he was busted for opening illegitimate businesses and for tax evasions. The guy has schmuck written on him from all sides.

@ Old Gamer, you live near Saugus?

Btw, I do have to agree that this is yet another low blow against organized religion. From my experience with you, you've managed to do this with every discussion I've had with you. To you, it seems like the 1% of Christians who are corrupt condemn the 99% that aren't.


Btw, regarding your challenge to find an atheistic or buddhist organization that does the same.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it. The Tibetan Buddhists ran an elitist state that endorsed slavery, was paedophiliac, and kept its nation in poverty. Likewise, I find it extremely hard to believe that any Buddhist or atheistic organization in large number is free from any of the vices accused of organized religion. But lemme guess, for some reason, that won't count either, right?