Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 67

Thread: Obama Rejects War Options

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Obama Rejects War Options

    WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama does not plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented by his national security team, pushing instead for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government, a senior administration official said Wednesday.
    That stance comes in the midst of forceful reservations about a possible troop buildup from the U.S. ambassador in Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, according to a second top administration official.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    In strongly worded classified cables to Washington, Eikenberry said he had misgivings about sending in new troops while there are still so many questions about the leadership of Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
    Obama is still close to announcing his revamped war strategy — most likely shortly after he returns from a trip to Asia that ends on Nov. 19.
    But the president raised questions at a war council meeting Wednesday that could alter the dynamic of both how many additional troops are sent to Afghanistan and what the timeline would be for their presence in the war zone, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss Obama's thinking.
    The president is considering options that include adding 30,000 or more U.S. forces to take on the Taliban in key areas of Afghanistan and to buy time for the Afghan government's small and ill-equipped fighting forces to take over. The other three options on the table are ranges of troop increases, from a relatively small addition of forces to the roughly 40,000 that the top U.S. general in Afghanistan prefers, according to military and other officials.
    The key sticking points appear to be timelines and mounting questions about the credibility of the Afghan government.
    Administration officials said Wednesday that Obama wants to make it clear that the U.S. commitment in Afghanistan is not open-ended. The war is now in its ninth year and is claiming U.S. lives at a record pace as military leaders say the Taliban has the upper hand in many parts of the country.
    Eikenberry, the top U.S. envoy to Kabul, is a prominent voice among those advising Obama, and his sharp dissent is sure to affect the equation. He retired from the Army this year to become one of the few generals in American history to switch directly from soldier to diplomat, and he himself is a recent, former commander of U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
    Eikenberry's cables raise deep concern about the viability of the Karzai government, according to a senior U.S. official familiar with them who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the classified documents. Other administration officials raised the same misgivings in describing Obama's hesitancy to accept any of the options before him in their current form.
    The options presented to Obama by his war council will now be amended.
    Military officials say one approach is a compromise battle plan that would add 30,000 or more U.S. forces atop a record 68,000 in the country now. They described it as "half and half," meaning half fighting and half training and holding ground so the Afghans can regroup.
    The White House says Obama has not made a final choice, though military and other officials have said he appears near to approving a slightly smaller increase than the war commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, wants at the outset.
    Among the options for Obama would be ways to phase in additional troops, perhaps eventually equaling McChrystal's full request, based on security or other conditions in Afghanistan and in response to pending decisions on troops levels by some U.S. allies fighting in Afghanistan.
    The White House has chafed under criticism from Republicans and some outside critics that Obama is dragging his feet to make a decision.
    Obama's top military advisers have said they are comfortable with the pace of the process, and senior military officials have pointed out that the president still has time since no additional forces could begin flowing into Afghanistan until early next year.
    Under the scenario featuring about 30,000 more troops, that number most likely would be assembled from three Army brigades and a Marine Corps contingent, plus a new headquarters operation that would be staffed by 7,000 or more troops, a senior military official said. There would be a heavy emphasis on the training of Afghan forces, and the reinforcements Obama sends could include thousands of U.S. military trainers.
    Another official stressed that Obama is considering a range of possibilities for the military expansion and that his eventual decision will cover changes in U.S. approach beyond the addition of troops. The stepped-up training and partnership operation with Afghan forces would be part of that effort, the official said, although expansion of a better-trained Afghan force long has been part of the U.S objective and the key to an eventual U.S. and allied exit from the country.
    With the Taliban-led insurgency expanding in size and ability, U.S. military strategy already has shifted to focus on heading off the fighters and protecting Afghan civilians. The evolving U.S. policy, already remapped early in Obama's tenure, increasingly acknowledges that the insurgency can be blunted but not defeated outright by force.
    ___
    Associated Press writers Matthew Lee and Pamela Hess contributed to this report.
    Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    Long quoted articles, multiple videos, and large pictures should be posted in spoilers. -- VP


    Sounds like the US policy in Afghanistan may just be whatever Obama changes his mind to before the November 19 announcement. Seems a bit late to be second guessing himself with that only eight days away.

    SOURCE: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...S.Afghanistan/
    Last edited by Viking Prince; November 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM.
    Forget the Cod this man needs a Sturgeon!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    He'll increase troops. This is only a ploy to show he isn't happy with the governance in Afghanistan.

  3. #3
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    3,312

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Gah! Karzai why did you have to rig the elections? You don't rig elections in a nation that can barely hold itself together!
    It's going to be so much harder now...

    Obama will increase troops, there really is no other option. It really just depends on how much he increases them by..... I'm thinking 30 to 32 thousand...
    Why doesn't the rest of NATO increase troop levels.... (well britain did, but not by a lot)
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

  4. #4
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Liverpool, UK
    Posts
    10,112

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    Gah! Karzai why did you have to rig the elections? You don't rig elections in a nation that can barely hold itself together!
    It's going to be so much harder now...

    Obama will increase troops, there really is no other option. It really just depends on how much he increases them by..... I'm thinking 30 to 32 thousand...
    Why doesn't the rest of NATO increase troop levels.... (well britain did, but not by a lot)

    We have a higher percentage of our armed forces there then anyone else (Including the US) and thats before we send the extra 500 (Making 10,000). Its time for the rest of Europe to start pulling their weight....
    Under the Patronage of Jom!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Its just thrilling to know a junior senator has rejected expert opinion and will figure out what is needed.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  6. #6
    Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Athenai
    Posts
    33,211

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Its just thrilling to know a junior senator has rejected expert opinion and will figure out what is needed.
    I didn't read anything about a Senator in that article...?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I didn't read anything about a Senator in that article...?
    Don't stress over it.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I didn't read anything about a Senator in that article...?

    thats what Obama was before he got elected.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Its just thrilling to know a junior senator has rejected expert opinion and will figure out what is needed.
    <hands Phier a shovel>

    Now, my pile of shared cynicism is over here. You can put yours over there in that pile. This makes them easier to load on the Cynicism Dumptruck that has been on its way for several months now...



    I'm a bit tired of hearing "Obama is going to come up with a plan" on just about every subject.

    I don't want someone who has no practical experience in foreign affairs or warfighting rejecting expert advice simply because it is politically advantageous to do so in order to win the cheers of his apologists. I'm tired of hearing how Obama is going to "convince" Congress of anything since he has no long-established relationships and loyalties to draw on in the first place. I particularly am tired of Obama giving economics lectures and proposing "his" suggestions since I'm doubtful he's had to manage his own checkbook in the past three years. In short, I'm tired of people pointing at Obama's Superman cape.

    We don't need an image of some savior coming up with brilliant solutions. We need a President who can take the solutions more knowledgeable people provide, contribute by helping to discern which could be the most effective considering current executive policy and then implement them and communicate their significance to the American people. Otherwise, we'd elect professional specialists for President every 30 days and change between disciplines as needed. This month, it'd be a General. Next month, it'll be an Economist. The month after that, it'll be a Psychiatrist.. (Well, there should be 500 psychiatrists on-call in Washington anyway..)

  10. #10
    Boer's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    719

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Morkonan View Post
    We need a President who can take the solutions more knowledgeable people provide, contribute by helping to discern which could be the most effective considering current executive policy and then implement them and communicate their significance to the American people.
    That would be a lot easier if his different advisers all agreed on one plan. Instead they are offering different plans. So since he has been given varying plans, with different "more knowledgeable people" supporting different ones, what's wrong with him wanting a compromise that more of those people think could work?
    If the soul is impartial in receiving information, it devotes to that information the share of critical investigation the information deserves, and its truth or untruth thus becomes clear. However, if the soul is infected with partisanship for a particulat opinion or sect, it accepts without a moment’s hesitation the information that is agreeable to it.—Ibn Khaldun.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Boer View Post
    That would be a lot easier if his different advisers all agreed on one plan. Instead they are offering different plans. So since he has been given varying plans, with different "more knowledgeable people" supporting different ones, what's wrong with him wanting a compromise that more of those people think could work?
    This is what I read :

    President Barack Obama does not plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented by his national security team...
    You can't always come to a "Compromise Solution."

    If you're going to put a screwcap on a bottle in order to contain a bunch of soda water, what's the best solution - Put it on halfway?

    Compromise solutions are not always viable choices. By their nature, much of the time they pay more attention to establishing a compromise than they do in regards to fixing a problem. I think compromise solutions are great but, not necessarily the right thing to do in every situation. Sometimes, there is no room for compromise. Sometimes, taking a plan that is not structured around considering a compromise and then forcing it to fit into one simply renders everything in that plan ineffective.

    A "political compromise solution" is just another way of saying "we're going to present a hugely ineffective yet costly plan that is focused on doing nothing but failing." IF that is what his final solution is, it will fail horribly. I fear that is what he is trying to do and, well, it doesn't exactly make me very happy. I EXPECT failure to come from such a process for a reason...

  12. #12
    No, that isn't a banana
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,216

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Its just thrilling to know a junior senator has rejected expert opinion and will figure out what is needed.
    Considering the "expert" opinions are flawed, I'm happy he wants different ideas.

    Never reinforce defeat.

    I know how easy a rule this can be to forget, especially when it comes to the superficial ego of a military superpower.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Its just thrilling to know a junior senator has rejected expert opinion and will figure out what is needed.
    Would you have preferred an old senator? That's if he didn't suddenly die, and leave the most powerful state in the world in the trigger-happy hands of his big-mouthed, small-brained harpy.

    That possibility alone would make me, for one, prefer the junior senator. So it's not as bad as it could be.

    All the same, I find it astonishing that these two alternatives were the only ones presented to you people.

  14. #14
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lubbock, Tx
    Posts
    21,514

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Obama will increase troops, there really is no other option. It really just depends on how much he increases them by..... I'm thinking 30 to 32 thousand...
    Hopefully more than that. Like another 20 to 30 thousand more. We have the troops, that's what they're there for, send them.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    I am very comforted to know that a community organizer is commander in chief.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by The Devil's Sergeant View Post
    I am very comforted to know that a community organizer is commander in chief.
    Aye, it is much better than a wrinkled old warmonger and his bubblehead running mate isn't it?
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    And what I read from that is that he has not accepted a single plan as of yet. What he is doing is creating a hybrid scheme most likely, and figuring out the completely ed up Afghan gov't situation. There will be more troops sent. Another part of the article, or at least a similar article I read tonight on the subject, talked about not having a clear exit strategy either. Obama's main points, and I think most of NATO's main goals are:
    1) Fix Karzai's govt. The elections were "epic fail", and corruption is so deep that its almost pointless to support them
    2) Clear exit strategy. The strategy on the ground is there we just don't have the manpower right now to carry it out fully
    3) Increase troops to better implement the ground strategy so that we can even begin to think about leaving

    No one wants an open ended war, which is what we will get if we send more troops in without a good exit strategy, without addressing the problems in goverance, or if we pull out and everything goes back to Afghanistan pre 9/11, which in that case would make the entire effort a waste of time, resources, and most importantly our soldiers lives.

    Or we could just send men willy nilly into the fray and hope that everything will magically fall into place.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Quote Originally Posted by pwf224 View Post
    And what I read from that is that he has not accepted a single plan as of yet.
    As I see it, he is not about to accept any plan put in front of him. There is no "as of yet." He is "not accepting" them.

    What he is doing is creating a hybrid scheme most likely, and figuring out the completely ed up Afghan gov't situation. There will be more troops sent. Another part of the article, or at least a similar article I read tonight on the subject, talked about not having a clear exit strategy either. Obama's main points, and I think most of NATO's main goals are:
    1) Fix Karzai's govt. The elections were "epic fail", and corruption is so deep that its almost pointless to support them
    2) Clear exit strategy. The strategy on the ground is there we just don't have the manpower right now to carry it out fully
    3) Increase troops to better implement the ground strategy so that we can even begin to think about leaving

    No one wants an open ended war, which is what we will get if we send more troops in without a good exit strategy, without addressing the problems in goverance, or if we pull out and everything goes back to Afghanistan pre 9/11, which in that case would make the entire effort a waste of time, resources, and most importantly our soldiers lives.

    Or we could just send men willy nilly into the fray and hope that everything will magically fall into place.
    The order is important as well as the goal of the invasion to begin with.

    Goals

    1) Remove hostile regime (Taliban). - Done (for the most part)
    2) Remove any threat the Taliban or Al Queda pose for Afghanistan - Ongoing/Incomplete
    3) Establish a stable, democratic government in Afghanista - Partially done
    4) Provide a stable environment until Afghanistan's elected government can take over - Incomplete

    It appears to me that Obama is playing to the camera here. He is pulling the same shtick he used with the situation in Iraq, concentrating on a "hand-off" and pretending to give the public some sort of assurance that there a much touted "Exit Strategy."

    Well, we're still in Iraq. There was a "Big Deal" made about US Troops being pulled out of cities/etc in Iraq because Obama wasn't meeting his campaign promises there. Guess what? We're still there.

    See number 4? That is the question Obama is looking to get an answer to. However, see 1-3? Those are questions we are still trying to determine the answer to and, in a couple of places, it's impossible to provide answers until a previous goal has been achieved. Obama is asking for dates, times, amounts and specifics regarding a hand-off to Afghanistan, just like what happened in Iraq. Well, Afghanistan's government probably doesn't even have its phones installed yet.... A bunch of guys in Kabul sitting around doing nothing is NOT a stable, democratically elected functioning government. Obama hoping someone can look at that situation and provide him with specifics is simply ludicrous.

    What's our exit strategy? It'd depend on those 4 goals being reached. But, in order to give Obama the answer he say's he wants (to the cameras) we NEED to finish removing the Taliban and Al Queda as future threats to the stability of Afghanistan. At least to the point where Afghanistan itself can keep their influence at bay.

    In the short-run, there is no way anyone is going to be able to give Obama any timeline for a transition or a withdrawal. It's simply impossible at this point. The situation has not developed enough in Afghan's government to even begin to discuss stability.

    In the long-run, I think it's a losing proposition all the way around. But, I'll be optimistic and pretend Afghanistan is going to be a stable home for a democratic government for the foreseeable future. In that case, we must have exactly what our Generals ask for and PRONTO! None of this "Wait for months before I must make a hard decision" crap. The President's job is about hard decisions. He signed up for it, he volunteered for it so...he gets to make them. He needs to go ahead and man-up, so to speak, and stop pretending he's on the campaign trail trying to get elected Chief Poobah of the World. It's a hard decision but, it has to be made - Send the Generals on the ground what they are asking for, period.

  19. #19
    cfmonkey45's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    8,222

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    So, Obama is following a policy of "Aghanization"?

    Sounds like a plan. It totally worked in Vietnam. And in Iraq.

    Ultimately, I don't think the Afghan government will be ready for it for some time.

  20. #20
    B5C's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Burlington, WA
    Posts
    1,701

    Default Re: Obama Rejects War Options

    Wow, we have a commander & chief who does not listen to his generals. If the Generals on the ground ask for reinforcements. You give them it.

    “Nothing could be more dangerous to the existence of this Republic than to introduce religion into politics”

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •