East Germans tired of arrogant Wessies.

[Nikitn]

So sad. This guy is afraid of saying he is East German (just one step up from saying he is a Pole (joke lol)). Anyway read this. And Atterdag don't come here with your "it's dangerous to defend DDR" BS, ok? Personally, I think the longer the Wessies bully the East Germans, the more the East Germans will feel nostalgia.

http://unrepentantcommunist.blogspot...s-believe.html

(this source if from Spiegel imo a biased newspaper so don't try denying this)

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yeah but we know what your motivation and underlying message is in posting this.

Personally, I have seen reported the East-West divide but I have not seen any East German suggest he would wish to return to the way things were. A communist blog wont change that. Maybe you need a trip to the Stasi museum?

[Nikitn]

Yeah but we know what your motivation and underlying message is in posting this.

Personally, I have seen reported the East-West divide but I have not seen any East German suggest he would wish to return to the way things were. A communist blog wont change that. Maybe you need a trip to the Stasi museum?

Yeah, I'm biased for DDR. Never denied this.

[danzig]

Yeah, I'm biased for DDR. Never denied this.

Why be biased for a goverment that ordered shooting of people who tried to leave the country? Really is anything that was positive about East Germany (Im sure there had to be something) worth the price it required?

[Nikitn]

Why be biased for a goverment that ordered shooting of people who tried to leave the country? Really is anything that was positive about East Germany (Im sure there had to be something) worth the price it required?

There was this big sign that stood there: Don't run over the border. I never denied DDR had dark sides (and many). However I think it is too demonized.

Atterdag, Statistics > your opinion

[Atterdag]

Atterdag, Statistics > your opinion

If I remember correctly the statistics you've presented in our past discussion were confined to a) movies (all unnamed) and b) wikipedia (sites also unnamed). Yeah, you're totally going to get a scholarship award for your research.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yeah, I'm biased for DDR. Never denied this.

And that's retarded.

[danzig]

Better title would be that majority of eastern germans suffer from idiocy. Big suprise during a global economic recession that people think back on old days as being nicer then they actually were. Sorry but Mother Russia and its slave states are dead, kaput, gone, dead and buried accept it.

This quote ""I'm better off today than I was before," he says, "but I am not more satisfied."" should be pondered. Why is he not more satisfied? Perhaps it is because he has choices now, that he can think about how things might be better and improved upon (no one claims any western nation is perfect after all) and that is is far more posible to bring about those changes then it would be under russian boots. This is why China's current goverment is doomed to failure, once people have a taste they have higher expectations and demand more. As far as the solidarity thing mentioned in the article, yeah well misery loves company and its far easier to live in a black and white world where someone is the bad guy, this is also true of the west. It isnt however a valid reason to be delusional.

[Atterdag]

Defending the DDR is dangerous. It was a horribly oppressive state that lived in fear of its citizenry.

Now with that dose of reality being delivered to our prodigal son Nikitn, the "article" isn't all that surprising. There's massive unemployment in the former GDR Bundesländer whilst people are moving to the western states in search of better jobs at an alarming rate (something of a relic when one considers that this seemed to be the favourite pass time activity in much of Soviet Europe).

As a quick note, all the East Germans I've talked to (the opposite of watching films on the subject, Nikitn) are either glad that unification came through or else they're a little less happy about it and are quick to point out the "good sides" of the GDR. However, they still prefer the goods of the West.

[Thorn777]

And I'm tired of unthankful eassies, just complaining all day, even more the nazi's beating up immigrants, who are mostly east-Germans.

My city west-Berlin went down the drain since the reunification, not saying reunification was bad thing, but please show some respect to the burden we carry to get you out the mess.

Its vice versa...

Anyway 85% of all Germans stand fully behind the reunification, some romantic dwellers living in the past are a given.

[gsoxx]

My city west-Berlin went down the drain since the reunification, not saying reunification was bad thing, but please show some respect to the burden we carry to get you out the mess.

Which burden? West Berlin was a highly subsidized bullwark against the east, now it is the highly subsidized capital of Germany. Sorry but it was leeching all the time. Or are you talking about all of western Germany?

What people tend to forget is that the reunification was probably the biggest peacetime government spending program ever. Most of the money spent for "Aufbau Ost" went right back into the pockets of the private companies (mostly in the West) ensuring an additional annual economical growth of several pro-cents during the nineties (saving the western economy from recession). All those companies building up shopping-temples and infrastructure, renovating buildings etc., made quite a profit and I'm not even talking about the "fiscal opportunities" there and then. So it is wrong to proclaim all the money went into the East when a large margin of it went and still goes right back. The Eastern German industry and economy was completely and utterly destroyed during the process. And living of "Hartz IV" grants you even less Reisefreiheit than the ordinary GDR citizen had.
There is a reason why the South Koreans studied the reunification (it was essentially a friendly take-over) and came to the conclusion that it is not the right way.

Anyway 85% of all Germans stand fully behind the reunification, some romantic dwellers living in the past are a given.

Agreed. It is somewhat silly to cling upon a division forced upon the Germans by the winning powers of WWII.

[Nikitn]

Atterdag, I won't go into another discussion with you. I don't have the energy, and I have to go soon. So I tell you one last time:
Read the statistics, talk later. And it is Speigel who did the mass polls. Read the damn article.

[Nikitn]

If Western Germans hadn't been so arrogant about "Scheisse trage Ossies" maybe there wouldn't be such problems. Thorn while it is true many of the Western Germans were OK, many of them looked down upon East Germans. Like you do?

And that's retarded.

nou

[Atterdag]

nou

What part of shooting people who attempt to leave the country coupled with massive political oppression do you consider acceptable enough for you to be biased in the GDR's favour?

[Nikitn]

What part of shooting people who attempt to leave the country coupled with massive political oppression do you consider acceptable enough for you to be biased in the GDR's favour?

lol "massive political opression". I actually enjoy German history, but I am especially interested in DDR. I know there are dark sides, but there are also excellt movies. Like the ones about chief Tokei-itho, hunting down "evil capitalists" in the wild west.

[Atterdag]

lol "massive political opression". I actually enjoy German history, but I am especially interested in DDR. I know there are dark sides, but there are also excellt movies. Like the ones about the Indian Falk Jage, hunting down Capitalists in the wild west.

Wild West proletarian warrior sweeps away the crimes committed by the Ministerium für Staatssicherheit. Nikitn amazes once again.

Sorry. But "massive political oppression" is the kind of constant purges Stalin performed. Stasi was was an organization of repression, I never denied that. I simply tell you that there were other things than lack of freedom. Is this really so hard to understand?

Pardon me, but it is very hard for rational, democratic minded persons to understand why you are biased in favour of the GDR.

[Thorn777]

If Western Germans hadn't been so arrogant about "Scheisse trage Ossies" maybe there wouldn't be such problems. Thorn while it is true many of the Western Germans were OK, many of them looked down upon East Germans. Like you do?

OK announcing lots of generalisations...

I'm just stating the western-issues with east-Germans, like east-Germans do with west-Germans on their own account.

Its not like we just decided to "look down upon" east-Germans, there is real conflict because of real issues.

And you wont see me "looking down upon" east-Germans anyway, I never said I did, I stated I'm just as tired as them, but for the other reasons.

@Gsoxx

Its true west-Berlin was heavily subsidized, and still is today, but please look at the big picture. In federal-Germany the Berlin city-state had to carry a big financial burden no subside for prestige projects like the Museumsinsel or diplomatic quarters can measure up to. The average people in Kreuzberg, Wedding, Spandau, Moabit, Schöneberg, Tempelhof etc etc saw their standard of living going down drastically, while east-German neighborhoods like Friedrichshain, Prenzlauer Berg, or Marzahn got nice funds. We got a 65 Billion debt that even makes the socialist coalition cut in every remaining social project left, and forcing its employees to be extra hard on people who receive unemployment benefits and so on just to save the city as much as possible.

Lots of people here are actually affected by this negatively in their every day lives.

Its clear west-Berliners had to give up the most for this reunification.

[Ahlerich]

this is a issue between germans. nobody else can really participate in this discussion. kids that grow up now are the same in all germany and united. devided only through the prejudices of their parents.

west germany paid a lot to rebuild eastern germany. still wages in the east are lower and unemployment higher. the process of unity costs west and east germans. both have their own problems. in the end we are united and that counts.

i know arrogant west germans and white trash ing hope and driveless east germans. that doesnt mean any of the prejudices are right. both parts of germany grew up pretty different after ww2 and it takes time to grow back together. thats it. the rest is just fuzz.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Um, no "lol massive political oppression". Very real, massive political oppression. As in people frequently tortured and murdered.

[Heathen Hammer]

Um, no "lol massive political oppression". Very real, massive political oppression. As in people frequently tortured and murdered.

Care to present documented examples of people being tortured and murdered?