Did You Know European Tradition of Chivalry Originated from the Middle East?

[jankren]

That's very dubious. European chivalry of medieval times has as many similarities with traditional Roman virtues as with anything the Arabs might have brought.

Chivarly as such developed in europe.

Did the Romans sing love songs to their women?

[ivan_the_terrible]

Now off-hand that seems dubious... Could you elaborate?

I didn't mean to imply that Chivalry originates in Roman virtues. Just that things like honour were not absent from europe before the Arabs somehow brought it.

Did the Romans sing love songs to their women?

Not really. But I doubt the Arabs invented it either.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

That there was an Arabic chivalry does not mean European chivalry was square off based on it. Many similarities, in fact, only denote that which is presumably common to chivalrous instinct, and not that they had been brought over from any place rather than developed naturally. For they do, as long as there is a nobility of some sorts, and some conditions.

Of course all the analogies made here to it "being traced" to previous times are valid but they miss the point of each and every chivalric tradition. That there are common notions of chivalry does not mean there is only one "chivalry", although I would be bold enough to state that most Arabic chivalry was in fact imported from the Sassanids. Most of the Arab State of the Early Caliphate in fact assumed the trappings of its predecessors since their cultural identity was arguably rather similar, as much as that structure was the result of if not sharing then striking similarity between Sassanid and Byzantine cultural and religious traditions.

[ivan_the_terrible]

That there was an Arabic chivalry does not mean European chivalry was square off based on it. Many similarities, in fact, only denote that which is presumably common to chivalrous instinct, and not that they had been brought over from any place rather than developed naturally. For they do, as long as there is a nobility of some sorts, and some conditions.

This is what I was trying to say. Couldn't do it so eloquently though.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Did the Romans sing love songs to their women?

Yes. Go read Ovid if you're in doubt.

[Junius]

Yes. Go read Ovid if you're in doubt.

I prefer Catulus for the love things. Lesbia and sparrows, it's all he could think about.

[jankren]

Not really. But I doubt the Arabs invented it either.

And nobody suggested that in the first place.

While the Arabs and Persians undoubtebdly had their own warrior traditions, I still feel that the Germanic tribes were the most likely source of European chivalry. They had their own warrior traditions which greatly emphasize loyalty to their lord and fighting prowess. Christianity would have probably given such existing traditions the aspects of aiding the weak and being pious.

Chivalric ethics spread throughout from France and Spain though.

[Carpathian Wolf]

This is lame. No it didn't. Maybe each respective area had it's idea of chivalry but that's defined by those specific people specifically for their specified area.

[Nevins]

Are we only talking about the Princess in the castle and the knight in shining armor here? Or are we also talking about the tourneys and jousting and warrior's code of honor?

[S.L.I.G]

Many times I heard people saying how the concept of chivalry is one of the distinct European traditions which separates European culture from others.

But Im just wondering how many people actually already know that the concept of chivalry (knight in shining armor, lady on the pedestal, love poetry, etc) came from the Arabs?

Yeah...no it didnt. Courtly love, Chivalric notions, are a European creation as a means to blend Christian morality with courtly intrigues. Theres a reason its TAUGHT in academic circles as a uniquely European creation, it is, regardless of whatever two cent crack pot "go minorities!1!!" website you've read.

[Blarni]

'Chivalry' is just a warrior code, and every warrior culture has had one. The Germanic culture from which Europe's Frankish knightly class arose were no exception.

While we don't typically associate poetry and singing with the earlier Germanic warriors - other groups like the Irish and Welsh certainly prized a pursuit of the arts as a virtue in a warrior.

I'm not surprised some 19th century historians tried to trace an 'Arab' origin to chivalry - they were academics of their time with a very scathing attitude to the christian tradition they thought themselves too advanced for, and a tendency to be pro-islam simply because they viewed it as an affront to Christianity.

Some aspects of chivalry could well have been influenced by Muslims - but the middle eastern tradition of 'knights in armour' 'courtly love' etc is Iranian, originating with the Parthian and Sassanian courts (and perhaps their predecessors). But even there, any link is questionable, because warrior feudalism has sprung up all over the world in very different cultures.

[merlinuscdxx]

Chivalry, with its somewhat vague definition, is simply the combination of the warrior's code with higher ideals, in whatever form they happen to take among a particular culture. In the case of European chivalry, it most likely comprises the Saravan (Sassanid origin) cavalry techniques, which is the form of cavalry tradition most suited to Europe's climate (due to the fact that Europe's humidity contraindicated the use of the composite bow), the Germanic warrior ethic, some Roman civic values, and the Catholic Church's call to higher ideals.

[Their Law]

I'd have to disagree with the OP. I'm actually currently doing a module on chivalry, and all the reading i've read on it points to it being a primarily European creation. What is unique however is that the 9 Chivalrous Heroes, come from all areas and faiths.

But the real issue i have here is that people are assuming cultural transferral is a one way street. It is just as valid arguing that European chivalry could of been responsible for a development of Middle Eastern warrior codes. Without proof i will take the OP views with extreme (and i mean extreme) pessimism. Frankly it smacks of cultural revisionism, which is a valid argument if it has some proof, which the Op does not.

And perhaps an even greater sticking point is that i guarantee that everyone here will have a different definition of what chivalry actually is. For example I view it as an entirety, both the ideal strived to in literature and song, and the reality of those influences upon the world. Both factors are equally part of chivalric culture in my view. However some people view only the martial traditions as being part of chivalry, others view it as the ideal alone. Others will view it is a romantic notion, whilst some might consider it a moral code (etc Geoffroi de Charny: Livre de chevalerie). Thus how can you argue whether chivalry is Middle Eastern or European if you can't agree on an consensus of what chivalry is and encompasses.

[Lysimachos11]

The notion of Arabs having been chivalrous is mostly a 19th Century invention of Europeans, primarily through works by Walter Scott. He created the image of chivalrous Saracens.

That doesn't mean the Arabs did not have a chivalric code though. But I agree with most people Western chivalry cannot be said to come from Al-Andalus. The battle of Adrianople in 378 introduced heavy cavalry as the dominating force on European battlefields. The whole feudal system originated from the Germanic tribes, and IIRC when these Germans came to rule over indigenous subjects, they adopted a warrior code that laid the basis for later medieval knights. I think it was under the Merovingians the first real knights with a special code emerged.

[diegis]

From what i know, at least from military point of view, europeans knights have as "grandfathers" and inspiration source the roman heavy cavalry, "cataphractari", inspired as well mostly by parthian/sassanid heavy cavary.

[Arch-hereticK]

As far as I can understand chivalry is the warrior ethic of elite heavy cavalry that charge headlong into enemy ranks. The Moors and Arabs were predominantly light skirmishing cavalry using hit and run tactics on the open field, which is the exact opposite of the western gothic/frankish tradition which pre-date the caliphs anyway.

I'm sure there are similarities as there are with all warrior codes all over the planet, but that doesn't neccessarily indicate origins.

[Their Law]

As far as I can understand chivalry is the warrior ethic of elite heavy cavalry that charge headlong into enemy ranks. The Moors and Arabs were predominantly light skirmishing cavalry using hit and run tactics on the open field, which is the exact opposite of the western gothic/frankish tradition which pre-date the caliphs anyway.

I'm sure there are similarities as there are with all warrior codes all over the planet, but that doesn't neccessarily indicate origins.

See this is the issue. Chivalry is not a purely military idea. It encompasses a vastly larger spectrum. So judging on a purely warrior based ethic is flawed, if you go down this line chivalric behaviour has been present in some form for 100 of years before what we consider the chivalric period. So if that is the case why is chivalry a clearly defined period. This is the difficulty when discussing chivalry.

[Dr. Croccer]

It might've but I doubt it. It seems more likely that it developed out of Germanic, Celtic and Slavic social codes and warrior culture which glorified individual prowess and vitrue.

[Arch-hereticK]

See this is the issue. Chivalry is not a purely military idea. It encompasses a vastly larger spectrum. So judging on a purely warrior based ethic is flawed, if you go down this line chivalric behaviour has been present in some form for 100 of years before what we consider the chivalric period. So if that is the case why is chivalry a clearly defined period. This is the difficulty when discussing chivalry.

But it started as a military idea. This thread is discussing the origins of chivilary, some think it was the middle east but the evidence is inconclusive.

[konny]

Chivalry is not tied to the existance of heavy cavalry. While it was the code of honor of the European Medieval heavy cavalry, other cultures had similar heavy cavalry without developing chivalry, but chivalry remained the code of honor of the European nobility and became the base of the general European code of behaviour long after the knights had disappeared from the battlefields.