Khmer Empire - Unit Previews & Roster Development

**Yelü Dashi** · November 09, 2009, 05:19 PM

Gentlemen, I believe creating the Khmer roster is going to a lot easier than we thought !

Read this post and this one first.

Tom actually send me some a model to test in-game a while, its quite high poly and was built in Maya. Nevertheless, without too much alteration I've got them working in game with the v.pretty textures supplied too. If he's cool with it all, I expect him to send more - elephants, weapons, armour, banners you name it ! We could Khmer nailed in no time. Did I mention he has Champa models too ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Aesthetically speaking, the style of the faces is a little different to my own units, but I haven't attempted to build in a lot of variation yet as this was just a test. What do you reckon ?

**Augustus Lucifer** · November 09, 2009, 06:51 PM

My thoughts are the units themselves look great. As you say a bit of facial variation would be needed in order to stand them up next to our other units. With that particular unit it seems to get a bit.. bony? in parts. Maybe it has to do with the poly conversion or just an aesthetic I'm not used to, I'm just noticing some occasional choppiness around the elbow/shoulders depending on the angle of the shot. The collarbone could do with being a bit less pronounced, but I do like that it's even there at all!

Overall though I think it looks great, and were we not such a picky team I think we could call it said and done immediately.

**Yelü Dashi** · November 10, 2009, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer

With that particular unit it seems to get a bit.. bony? in parts. I'm just noticing some occasional choppiness around the elbow/shoulders depending on the angle of the shot. The collarbone could do with being a bit less pronounced, but I do like that it's even there at all!.

Yeah, I could do with tightening up the rigging on and around the shoulders. Can also vary the body shapes and size a little.

Originally Posted by Marcion

Yeah, I'd say these look fine as they are. Except, did the Khmer use any paint or body modification? They're looking kinda... naked.

Bas-reliefs at Angkor attest that this is pretty much how your lowest-tier bog standard Khmer soldier would have looked, but not all units will be same. If you looked at the Tom's renders in other thread you can see some troops wore sleeveless jackets for instance.

Remember folks these models are from animations used by the National Geographic, and were researched and created by a team of historians and 3D artists at a leading Australian university (is that an oxymoron ?). They are as historically accurate as you're gonna get. Being given permission to use them should fill you all with joy and warm feelings.

It also means we don't need 'develop' or research particularly deeply into the look of each unit

**RollingWave** · November 09, 2009, 08:15 PM

nice, I looked up Pagan while i was donig the Xi-Xia research but came up largely empty (only found this book... that was printed before WW2.... it was literrally disentergrating in my hand .... and it was a translation of a late 19th century work too eek)

Anyway, that book gave me little clue, it basically just noted that Pagan used elephants , that they were generally lightly or unarmored . it did meantion how some of the elephants were mounted javeliner (had baskets of javelin at their side) .

Basically, it seems that Chinese sources only noted the battles the Yuan had with Pagan. the main one being a crushing Yuan victory, where they're horses were scared by the elephants. but they then decided to dismount further away and just sniped at the elephants. which they ran amok, and that along with the rain of arrows send the Pagan forces into chaos and routed.

**Wundai** · November 10, 2009, 03:34 AM

What do I reckon? I reckon WOW!
So they look a bit boney, that is not negative but positive in my eyes, since it also makes them look a bit more muscular.
Nah I like them just the way they are.

**Marcion** · November 10, 2009, 01:02 PM

Yeah, I'd say these look fine as they are. Except, did the Khmer use any paint or body modification? They're looking kinda... naked.

**Wundai** · November 11, 2009, 01:19 PM

Cool, speeding it all up

**Asean** · November 11, 2009, 03:11 PM

About them lacking something or looking naked. Soldiers back then adorned themselves with tattoos called yantras, similar to this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Not just soldiers wear tantras/yantras tattoos but ordinary people as well. They are believed to ward off evil and protect them in battle. Some Soldiers and King Jayavarman 7th, was tattooed from chin down to toe. He went to war almost naked, believing that the tat, was like an umpenetrable armor. Oh and most had long hair and in a bun.

"Yantra tattooing is a form of sacred tattooing practiced by Buddhist monks in Cambodia. The script used for Yant designs is ancient Khmer and Pali. Cambodians believe a yantra has magical powers that ward off evil and hardship. The master guarantees that no harm will come to the person who can faithfully keep the abstinence; not even a gun would fire and neither would a knife cut. The tattoo is particularly popular amongst monks and military personnel."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Yelü Dashi** · November 11, 2009, 03:18 PM

Those look pretty darn cool, and are definately something to consider. I'd heard of the Thais/Dai Viet using tattoos but not the Khmers. Have you got any source material from the period ?

**Asean** · November 11, 2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi

Those look pretty darn cool, and are definately something to consider. I'd heard of the Thais/Dai Viet using tattoos but not the Khmers. Have you got any source material from the period ?

Here's some articles, you can find them if you search Khmer Yantra Tattoos on google.

http://www.cambodianscene.com./index...e=magicmasters

"Magical tattoos have protected Cambodian soldiers for millennia. Even today, Khmer tattoos are the most powerful in Asia. With modernisation however, the practice is beginning to slip into obscurity. Despite Cambodia’s modernity, its culture is still pervaded by superstition. Religious traditions are both tolerant and adaptive. Of the many ways to ensure good fortune, the most powerful are sacred tattoos. These bring luck, prosperity, longevity or, most commonly, protection. For this reason, many in hazardous employ seek the reassurance of a traditional tattoo. Most are soldiers like the great king Jayarvarman VII, who was said to be magically protected "in such away that even knives and arrows hitting his body could not wound him.""

http://www.leisurecambodia.com/Leisu...17/tattoo.html

"Recorded also in the literatures of Chi Takwann, a Chinese author during Angkor Funan era, ordinary people and not just soldiers wear tattoos. Besides their magical powers, Yantra were ornamental arts of the Khmer people at that time. People use little clothing and coupled with their preventive power, many people had tattoos on them."

http://www.tao-of-tattoos.com/yantra-tattoos.html

"It was once widely practiced throughout Asia - most commonly in Cambodia where the tattoo's purpose is primarily for self-protection. Many Cambodians believe that yantras have magical powers to ward off evil spirits. It is believed to be one of the most powerful ways to ensure good fortune with these sacred tattoos."

**Asean** · November 11, 2009, 03:36 PM

Had this for a while, Khmer Cuirasses

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Yelü Dashi** · November 11, 2009, 03:37 PM

Yeah I found those sites. I was referring to primary sources. Zhou Daguan, the Chinese diplomat, provides some excellent evidence on what the Khmer people looked like and how they dressed. I wonder if he mentions tattoos at all. RW, do have a copy of Zhenla feng tu ji (真臘風土記) - it would be really useful for us ?

Asean - thats from Armies of Angkor by that French, I have that book ! Will post up scans in the future if needed. What do you think of models tho ?

**Asean** · November 11, 2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi

Yeah I found those sites. I was referring to primary sources. Zhou Daguan, the Chinese diplomat, provides some excellent evidence on what the Khmer people looked like and how they dressed. I wonder if he mentions tattoos at all. RW, do have a copy of Zhenla feng tu ji (真臘風土記) - it would be really useful for us ?

I wouldn't know where to find primary sources. Not very many writings (Other than Zhou Daguan), were written about Angkor. Unless you could find a list of translated stone inscriptions.

**Asean** · November 11, 2009, 03:45 PM

That particular model works, because they do look Khmer and fits well into the period. Giving them some tattoos and hair variation (Long hair in a bun) would complete that particular unit (javelin?).

**RollingWave** · November 11, 2009, 09:38 PM

I'll look it up Yelu, it's actually won wiki source

http://zh.wikisource.org/zh-tw/%E7%9...9C%9F%E8%A8%98

**RollingWave** · November 11, 2009, 09:45 PM

a brief skim seem to offer little in terms of military , though it does talk about more things elsewhere , like trade etc.

on the military

軍馬亦是裸體、跣足，右手執摽槍，左手執戰牌，別無所謂弓箭、砲石、甲胄之屬。傳聞與暹人相攻，皆驅百姓使戰，往往亦別無智畧謀畫。

The horses / cavalries are also naked (unarmored? unsaddled? ) and shoeless, they hold javelins in their right hand and shields on their left, there are no bows and arrows , artilleries, armor. heard that when fighting with the Thais, they just force their civilians to participate, often with no real plans or strategy.

**Yelü Dashi** · November 20, 2009, 08:01 PM

Added some "authentic" Yantra tattoos, and some face/hair variation and the added the original hands back in (more realistic looking) still have some issues with the dark areas on some of the shoulders which need ironing out. They look more menacing now IMHO, which is nice

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: