Pearl Harbor why did the Japanese want to do it, could it have been stopped from the inside?

[SturmChurro]

I was wondering why would the Japenese even think about carrying out a task such as this, and could it have been stopeed from the inside?

[Banana Jelly]

What?

What do you mean inside? Like from out hearts?

[Morkonan]

I was wondering why would the Japenese even think about carrying out a task such as this, and could it have been stopeed from the inside?

I don't know what you mean as being "stopped from the inside."

However, attacking US forces at Pearl Harbor using aircraft was not a far-fetched idea. In Italy or Spain, I can't recall specifics atm (I'm sure someone will happily provide them.) a similar attack was launched against anchored ships in a protected harbor by aircraft. The attack was successful and sunk or damaged several in the fleet. This emphasized the new nature of naval warfare as being one where aircraft would play a key roll.

Why do it? Because, it had a very high likelihood of success if the surprise element could be maintained. Surprise was maintained and the attack was successful. However, the most important piece of the new Order of Battle, the Aircraft Carrier, was not at Pearl at the time. The Japanese missed them by days or hours, IIRC. So, it was very successful against surface fighting ships but it did not remove the United State's ability to project force as Japan had hoped.

[SturmChurro]

I actually do not know why the japenese did it in my mind I think they did it just to got to war.
I mean you know how we had suspicions could we have done something to stop them.

[Sher Khan]

Japan wanted to dominate China economically, and kept their own monopoly with military force. America, ever confident in its capitalists, demanded an open door policy for free trade for all nations (in which Japan's industry would be easily muscled out by the far more capable and powerful U.S. industry).

In several months of diplomatic back-and-forth, America demanded Japan cease its domination of and expansion into China, and the Japanese would not budge. When the U.S. finally issued its ultimatum of a trade embargo, Japan made its move. While receiving a diplomatic mission, one which would merely formalize Japan's rejection of the United States ultimatum, they launched a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.


The U.S. military had known an attack was coming, but from where exactly it was unsure. With Hawaii's distance from the Japanese mainland, it was fairly low on the expected targets list, so the attack was fast and shocking. The Japanese had hoped to shock America into accepting Japanese terms, that a show of force where the Pacific fleet was all but destroyed would force us to reconsider our position and offer terms. Public opinion, however, was of a very different mindset.

What do you mean by 'inside', though?

[SturmChurro]

What do you mean by 'inside', though?

I meant, also if we would have know about could we have somehow undercoverly stopped it.

[Banana Jelly]

I meant, also if we would have know about could we have somehow undercoverly stopped it.

Ofcourse, but it was highly unlikley that Japan would have done it so america didn't pay attention to it.

[barbarossa pasha]

Ruled by a military government that wouldn't face the shame of giving in to - what they considered humiliating - American demands, Japan resolved to secure natural resources militarily. Basing their planning on American War Plans drawn up in the 1920s/30s, but largely abandoned by 1941, they sought to knock out the Pacific battlefleet at the outset and secure the path to South East Asia.

There had been resistance from the Imperial Japanese Army which sought to expand in China and Siberia. The interminable and costly conflict in China and the stinging defeats suffered in 1939 at the hands of the Red Army convinced policy-makers that the path of least resistance lay to the South. Just like Barbarossa, a half dozen months before, the Pearl Harbor operation was predicated on a flawed appreciation of the potential enemy that would ultimately result in the complete defeat of the aggressor.

In Italy or Spain, I can't recall specifics atm (I'm sure someone will happily provide them.) a similar attack was launched against anchored ships in a protected harbor by aircraft. The attack was successful and sunk or damaged several in the fleet. This emphasized the new nature of naval warfare as being one where aircraft would play a key roll.

The Royal Navy launched an attack on the Italian naval base at Taranto in 1940, a handful of Fairey Swordfish launched from HMS Illustrious were able to halve the Italian battle fleet at a stroke and force it to withdraw to less vulnerable, but less threatening ports farther north.

I actually do not know why the japenese did it in my mind I think they did it just to got to war.

Are you saying that the Japanese just wanted to test out this cool new carrier-based attack and started a war to carry it out?

[OTZ]

I was wondering why would the Japenese even think about carrying out a task such as this, and could it have been stopeed from the inside?

Desperation, an over-estimation of their own capability, and a gross under-estimation of America's response and eco-industrial potential to wage war.

Ignorance at it's finest, in my opinion.

[Tacitursa]

The US knew in advance that it was going to happen.

French and British intelligence also told the US about it before it happened.

Americans wanted it to happen.

Why?: Reason to enter the war.

War = Profit.

They also killed civilians during ww1 in order to join that war. Made a excuse for vietnam. excuse for iraq. And before 2020 there will be another reason to enter Iran or maybe even Saudi arabia.

[eisenkopf]

(...)
They also killed civilians during ww1 in order to join that war. Made a excuse for vietnam. excuse for iraq. And before 2020 there will be another reason to enter Iran or maybe even Saudi arabia.

Do you realize that you wrote incomprensible nonsense? If not, let me tell you:

You wrote incomprehensible nonsense.

Further, you are not up-to-date: The US already are in Saudi Arabia. They have air bases there.

[Dr. Croccer]

Desperation, an over-estimation of their own capability, and a gross under-estimation of America's response and eco-industrial potential to wage war.

Ignorance at it's finest, in my opinion.

Desperation at it's finest. The US halted all oil trade with them, the lion's share of Japanese oil came from the US. The oil itself was needed for the war in China, which was a stalemate and for the homeland. Without oil, the Japanese would most likely lose in China, and the very reason to invade China was to improve their failing economy. The Japanese hoped that if they attacked the US' and the European colonies and managed to hold off invasion forces, they might secure a peace favourable to them. They had the choice of dying slowly and certainly or waging a war in which they had a small chance of winning.

[Treize]

Desperation at it's finest. The US halted all oil trade with them, the lion's share of Japanese oil came from the US. The oil itself was needed for the war in China, which was a stalemate and for the homeland. Without oil, the Japanese would most likely lose in China, and the very reason to invade China was to improve their failing economy. The Japanese hoped that if they attacked the US' and the European colonies and managed to hold off invasion forces, they might secure a peace favourable to them. They had the choice of dying slowly and certainly or waging a war in which they had a small chance of winning.

This.

ABDA stopping the oil suppy, Japan HAD to attack and the most dangerous enemy was concentrated at Pearl Harbour, not attacking Pearl Harbour as a first target would be incredibly stupid.

[hellheaven1987]

Desperation at it's finest. The US halted all oil trade with them, the lion's share of Japanese oil came from the US. The oil itself was needed for the war in China, which was a stalemate and for the homeland. Without oil, the Japanese would most likely lose in China, and the very reason to invade China was to improve their failing economy. The Japanese hoped that if they attacked the US' and the European colonies and managed to hold off invasion forces, they might secure a peace favourable to them. They had the choice of dying slowly and certainly or waging a war in which they had a small chance of winning.

1. Well, US actually imposed oil embargo slowly; at first it was a scrap metal embargo, then a partial oil, metals and rare material embargo. The full embargo, plus the completely freezing of Japanese capitals in US, was done only when Japan occupied Indochina.

2. Another important reason why Japan invaded China was fear of Communism; Japan always hoped to bring Nationalist China under her anti-Communist sphere, and when Nationalist China signed a peace agreement with CCP, Japanese government was freak out and suspected Nationalist China was pro-Communism.

[Tacitursa]

Not only that, but German tank warfare doctrine was developed and practiced in Russia in the 1920s, and air doctrine formulated with the participation of French thinkers. Thus the French and Russians were obviously responsible for the invasion of their own countries.

IBM sold technologies and machines to the Nazi party which were allegedly used in perpetrating the Holocaust. Apparently not just IBM, but the whole of the United States, should be held personally responsible. Hell, let's just say that every single person who died from 1930-1945 died because of the United States as a whole.

Standard oil continued to supply germany during the war even after germany declared war on them.

Most of germanys force was possible thanks to US Standard oil. Tanks , subs , bombers , fighers etc.

GM and Ford built over 80% of Nazi half-track's and over 60% of there medium and heavyduty trucks during the war.

According to america's own intelligence reports the backbone of the Nazi transportation system was built by GM and Ford. Germany would have been very weak if you didnt supply them with so much.

I wonder how many of the allied ww2 deaths are thanks to Standard oil , GM and Ford. Heh at least GM got a few medals from Hitler for there great work. Medal for killing your own countrymen not bad atall

[motiv-8]

The attack on Pearl Harbor was the result of a long train of thought and events from years beforehand. For some time the Japanese had been rampaging through the north of China, and as Sher Khan stated above that caused a problem for European powers who had until then enjoyed wide economic freedom in the country. That is when the first trade embargoes began, though mostly from the British and the French. In response to these, Japan turned its aggression further south, aiming for resources and also presenting itself as the savior of South Asia from the imperialism of the West. Under those pretexts Japan seized French Indochina. It was after this event that the United States began its embargoes, which more than any other were the most crippling. This presented a real crisis to the Japanese government; by government I am of course speaking of the military, which saw its own interests compromised as its campaigns would be damaged as well as its industries.

Throughout 1941 there were some ineffectal attempts at negotiation. The Roosevelt Administration, however, was not going to accept any further aggression and disruption on the part of the Japanese, so in November of that year a memorandum by Hull was sent out demanding the Japanese not only fully stop their activities, but also return to their borders as they were in 1937. Only then would the United States resume normal trade relations. The Japanese were floored, in that the Americans would have the audacity to make such ridiculous (as they saw them) demands; Japan would not give up its conquests out of mere threats. Therefore it was decided in the upper echelons of the military that war was inevitable.

This presented the next step in logic.. War was decided, but the choice of place was yet to be decided. The main thing Japan needed was resources especially oil. It was well-known that vast quantities lay in the Duth-owned East Indies. However, the problem there was that the Indies were flanked on two sides by formidable military posts in the colonies of British Malaya and the U.S. Philippines. It was decided that to make a position in the Indies tenable, these two colonies would have to be conquered as well. Malaya did not present much of a conundrum, but the Philippines did. As long as the U.S. had her fleet, an invasion of the Philippines would eventually be disastrous once that fleet arrived. Therefore the next logical step was taken, to destroy the fleet as soon as possible, with the element of surprise. That's what brought them to Pearl.


There were of course other elements involved in the decision, elements that unfortunately for the Japanese were based on supposition and not a little racism. Based on a few interactions by diplomats temporarily living in the United States, as well as the exceedingly small American population in Japan (I think it numbered only around 200 by 1940) stereotypes and charicatures were the dominating views of Americans by the Japanese. It was thought that Americans' capitalism and democracy had made them weak, that they were morally corrupt and liable to negotiate rather than make a stand, and wouldn't be willing to fight a war of any great length with a people of superior martial prowess, spirit, and resolve. Thus the bet was made that a quick and decisive strike on the fleet in Hawaii would bull the Americans into compliance, and the die was cast.

I guess you can call it "ignorance" if you want, but it actually was quite logical if you were Japan in 1941. But even being logical doesn't make it not a blunder.

Americans wanted it to happen.

Why?: Reason to enter the war.

War = Profit.

Haha, myths based on the shoddiest of reasoning are quite entertaining. Let's see... The United States government willingly allowed its greatest fleet and tens of thousands of men to hang to dry so they could make some money in a war, despite the fact that it already stood to make large sums in loans to Europe and was already in an undeclared state of war with Germany, and that military planners had already determined that a campaign against Japan in the Pacific would be very difficult? Yes, how logical. I especially love the "war = profit! See? Argument!" ... brilliant.

[hellheaven1987]

The attack on Pearl Harbor was the result of a long train of thought and events from years beforehand. For some time the Japanese had been rampaging through the north of China, and as Sher Khan stated above that caused a problem for European powers who had until then enjoyed wide economic freedom in the country. That is when the first trade embargoes began, though mostly from the British and the French.

No, first embargo was posted by US first then following by Britain and France. The embargo was placed when Japanese occupied Hainan, and Nationalist Chinese government successfully persuaded US government it was a preparation to attack Indochina.

Throughout 1941 there were some ineffectal attempts at negotiation. The Roosevelt Administration, however, was not going to accept any further aggression and disruption on the part of the Japanese, so in November of that year a memorandum by Hull was sent out demanding the Japanese not only fully stop their activities, but also return to their borders as they were in 1937. Only then would the United States resume normal trade relations. The Japanese were floored, in that the Americans would have the audacity to make such ridiculous (as they saw them) demands; Japan would not give up its conquests out of mere threats. Therefore it was decided in the upper echelons of the military that war was inevitable.

Well, Roosevelt government concerned Japanese's advance into Indochina mainly. What Japanese government proposed was 1. Hoping US government to bring Nationalist China to peace table 2. Lift oil embargo and in return IJA would withraw from southern Indochina. Obviously, both were unacceptable, hence Japanese government proposed an alternation - complete withraw from Indochina in exchange of limit, civil oil import. Roosevelt was thinking to accept this "Plan B", because it solved what Allies was fearing - an Japanese advance into South. Yet, Roosevelt decided not to accept the plan after Nationalist China protested - after all, Roosevelt felt he could not abandon China, both morally and politically, to its own fate. It was after US rejected this "Plan B" that Japanese government decided to attack.

Interesting enough, when Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor the Chinese ambassor was with Roosevelt, who personally informed Chinese ambassor he would not abandon Nationalist China.

[Admiral Piett]

The attack on Pearl Harbor was the result of a long train of thought and events from years beforehand. For some time the Japanese had been rampaging through the north of China, and as Sher Khan stated above that caused a problem for European powers who had until then enjoyed wide economic freedom in the country. That is when the first trade embargoes began, though mostly from the British and the French. In response to these, Japan turned its aggression further south, aiming for resources and also presenting itself as the savior of South Asia from the imperialism of the West. Under those pretexts Japan seized French Indochina. It was after this event that the United States began its embargoes, which more than any other were the most crippling. This presented a real crisis to the Japanese government; by government I am of course speaking of the military, which saw its own interests compromised as its campaigns would be damaged as well as its industries.

Throughout 1941 there were some ineffectal attempts at negotiation. The Roosevelt Administration, however, was not going to accept any further aggression and disruption on the part of the Japanese, so in November of that year a memorandum by Hull was sent out demanding the Japanese not only fully stop their activities, but also return to their borders as they were in 1937. Only then would the United States resume normal trade relations. The Japanese were floored, in that the Americans would have the audacity to make such ridiculous (as they saw them) demands; Japan would not give up its conquests out of mere threats. Therefore it was decided in the upper echelons of the military that war was inevitable.

This presented the next step in logic.. War was decided, but the choice of place was yet to be decided. The main thing Japan needed was resources especially oil. It was well-known that vast quantities lay in the Duth-owned East Indies. However, the problem there was that the Indies were flanked on two sides by formidable military posts in the colonies of British Malaya and the U.S. Philippines. It was decided that to make a position in the Indies tenable, these two colonies would have to be conquered as well. Malaya did not present much of a conundrum, but the Philippines did. As long as the U.S. had her fleet, an invasion of the Philippines would eventually be disastrous once that fleet arrived. Therefore the next logical step was taken, to destroy the fleet as soon as possible, with the element of surprise. That's what brought them to Pearl.


There were of course other elements involved in the decision, elements that unfortunately for the Japanese were based on supposition and not a little racism. Based on a few interactions by diplomats temporarily living in the United States, as well as the exceedingly small American population in Japan (I think it numbered only around 200 by 1940) stereotypes and charicatures were the dominating views of Americans by the Japanese. It was thought that Americans' capitalism and democracy had made them weak, that they were morally corrupt and liable to negotiate rather than make a stand, and wouldn't be willing to fight a war of any great length with a people of superior martial prowess, spirit, and resolve. Thus the bet was made that a quick and decisive strike on the fleet in Hawaii would bull the Americans into compliance, and the die was cast.

I guess you can call it "ignorance" if you want, but it actually was quite logical if you were Japan in 1941. But even being logical doesn't make it not a blunder.

This right here, as well as Sher Khan's post, is the answer. Well done.

The Japanese position wasn't all that stupid during that time and if they had succeeded in taking out those carriers the outcome of the conflict might have been quite different. Despite the fact that they put all their eggs onto Pearl Harbor and the pure luck that it would have to accomplish its mission, the Japanese weren't stupid. I think they were fully aware of the consequences of their actions and that's exactly why they attempted to push an immediate, decisive victory.

[Salem1]

The Japanese position wasn't all that stupid during that time and if they had succeeded in taking out those carriers the outcome of the conflict might have been quite different.

In hindsight, if the Japanese had succeeded completely with their surprise attack then all I see changed is the war going better for Japan until USA decides to drop nukes. Due to the war having gone better, more nukes would be dropped. That's pretty much it imo.

[Lonck]

well he is right in a way. War did bring even more profits (and who doesn't like more money) and established america as a superpower. So in a way they could've allowed pearl harbor be attacked, especially since the carriers were out of harm's way. Of course it's a theory (one of many). It's not so far fetched really that the government would allow the deaths of a few to get in the war.
@OP:
Japs thought they could cripple american naval power and bring them to their knees. Yes the attack could've been prevented.