Venice

[airborne guy]

Are there any guides to this faction in 6.2. Venice is very hard for me to play, because HRE keeps attacking me at my capital. I am going to start over, any help would be nice. Thankyou!

[meese]

This is what I did with the RR/RC compilation, early era:

Use the army between Venice and Ragusa to take Zagreb and join some of the garrisons at Venice and Ragusa to attack Ancona or Bari. As soon as you can, take the one you missed. Your objective will be to gain control of this area so troops can flow via sea, and you'll gain quite a lot of money too. When possible, take Bologna.

The key to defending Venice in particular is to keep watchtowers on the borders so you can see when there's an army coming. By shuttling troops around on boats, you shouldn't have much of a problem getting an army together to fight off the HRE.

In the meantime, you'll either want to take over Italy or Greece. If you choose Greece, you'll get quite a few other castles (Durazzo, Corinth, Arta) along the coast which will again be great for quickly gathering an army together. Italy will net you a lot more money but possibly excommunication. Both are great fun, I've found, and you'll eventually want to take them both anyway.

I guess the three main tips I'd give are:

1. Make use of mercenaries - Venice is rich and mercenaries are quite plentiful. You'll be needing them quite often when warring on more than one front. At times, I'd have almost half of my army made up of mercenaries after a particularly tough battle, only to find another stack heading my way.

2. Use your urban crossbow militias - I've had numerous battles both defensive sieges and on the field when these saved the day. In the early era, neither the HRE or romans get crossbows as far as I know, so you've got the upperhand.

3. Disband units in cities/castles where they can be recruited. That puts them back into the pool so you don't have to wait another 10 turns for light swordsmen or however long it takes.

[airborne guy]

This is what I did with the RR/RC compilation, early era:

Use the army between Venice and Ragusa to take Zagreb and join some of the garrisons at Venice and Ragusa to attack Ancona or Bari. As soon as you can, take the one you missed. Your objective will be to gain control of this area so troops can flow via sea, and you'll gain quite a lot of money too. When possible, take Bologna.

The key to defending Venice in particular is to keep watchtowers on the borders so you can see when there's an army coming. By shuttling troops around on boats, you shouldn't have much of a problem getting an army together to fight off the HRE.

In the meantime, you'll either want to take over Italy or Greece. If you choose Greece, you'll get quite a few other castles (Durazzo, Corinth, Arta) along the coast which will again be great for quickly gathering an army together. Italy will net you a lot more money but possibly excommunication. Both are great fun, I've found, and you'll eventually want to take them both anyway.

I guess the three main tips I'd give are:

1. Make use of mercenaries - Venice is rich and mercenaries are quite plentiful. You'll be needing them quite often when warring on more than one front. At times, I'd have almost half of my army made up of mercenaries after a particularly tough battle, only to find another stack heading my way.

2. Use your urban crossbow militias - I've had numerous battles both defensive sieges and on the field when these saved the day. In the early era, neither the HRE or romans get crossbows as far as I know, so you've got the upperhand.

3. Disband units in cities/castles where they can be recruited. That puts them back into the pool so you don't have to wait another 10 turns for light swordsmen or however long it takes.

Thanks for the advice. As soon as I took Zagreb the HRE attacked me there, and they are now massing a huge stack in Bologna. I am on turn 20 and hold all of my early era settlements plus Zagreb so far. Should I go for bologna now or Hit poorly defended innsbruck?

[clev]

usually when? turn?

if you can try giving a gift to pope to boost your points and just incase HRE attack you they can be excommunicated.. see if you can call a crusade against them.. prioritize getting a ballista early.

[Tyrenia]

I guess the three main tips I'd give are:

1. Make use of mercenaries - Venice is rich and mercenaries are quite plentiful. You'll be needing them quite often when warring on more than one front. At times, I'd have almost half of my army made up of mercenaries after a particularly tough battle, only to find another stack heading my way.

2. Use your urban crossbow militias - I've had numerous battles both defensive sieges and on the field when these saved the day. In the early era, neither the HRE or romans get crossbows as far as I know, so you've got the upperhand.

3. Disband units in cities/castles where they can be recruited. That puts them back into the pool so you don't have to wait another 10 turns for light swordsmen or however long it takes.

YOU USE MERCS!!! I despise mercs! They are evil, money-sapping fellows who have less morale than a 6 year old kid. They are only EVER good for Crusades/Jihads, where you don't have to pay ridiculous upkeep fees, or for when you have had an unexpected battle before sieging a fully garrisoned city.

Other than that, I agree with most of your other advice, though I prefer my own diplomatic solution to the Bologna problem . Pavise crossbowmen are very good in field battles, though I always seem to have problems using crossbowmen of any kind in sieges. For some reason, they seem to not fire properly while on walls.

Oh, and you can use the same strategy that got you Bologna to get Rome without starting a war with the Pope, but you need to give him more territories in the Holy lands so he moves his capital there.

[airborne guy]

Oh, and you can use the same strategy that got you Bologna to get Rome without starting a war with the Pope, but you need to give him more territories in the Holy lands so he moves his capital there.[/QUOTE]
Do you ussually have to give the HRE money too, when you make a trade for Baghdad? When you go on a crusade in the holy land and take say... Jerusalem or Acre. You will not hold it for long because of the endles stacks of Egyptios coming to take it from you. You will not have enough time to take a coupple of moreof these settlements do to the amount of egyption stacks coming at you

[CrossSide]

YOU USE MERCS!!! I despise mercs! They are evil, money-sapping fellows who have less morale than a 6 year old kid. They are only EVER good for Crusades/Jihads, where you don't have to pay ridiculous upkeep fees, or for when you have had an unexpected battle before sieging a fully garrisoned city.

Other than that, I agree with most of your other advice, though I prefer my own diplomatic solution to the Bologna problem . Pavise crossbowmen are very good in field battles, though I always seem to have problems using crossbowmen of any kind in sieges. For some reason, they seem to not fire properly while on walls.

Oh, and you can use the same strategy that got you Bologna to get Rome without starting a war with the Pope, but you need to give him more territories in the Holy lands so he moves his capital there.

Which submod do you play? In RR/RC it's vital to use mercs I think

[Tyrenia]

Ok, I think I have a strategy that may work. During my Venetian campaign, the HRE never troubled me, perhaps for the reasons I am about to outline.

The biggest problem that Venice will have with HRE is Bologna. The way I got Bologna without starting a war was by doing the following.
1. Ally with HRE
2. Request a crusade to somewhere in the Holy Lands (for me, the Pope called one to Baghdad)
3. After capturing the crusade target (preferably a rich city), offer it to HRE as a trade for Bologna. I was only playing 6.1, but they accepted on VH campaign difficulty

Once Bologna is yours, you must strive to maintain your alliance. In all the campaigns playing SS, I have never had anyone break an alliance to attack me (except when I was a crusade/jihad target). As Venice, your key to victory is the Mediterranean, and thus the poor castles of Germany are not such a good target. But if you are still concerned about an HRE attack on Venice (and Milan later) would be to take Innsbruk and/or Bern. Castles defending the high passes will allow you to hold of a full HRE stack with half the number of defenders. But as long as you keep that alliance at all costs, there shouldn't be too much trouble.

Even if, after all your preventative measures, they still attack, send a stack to raid Vienna, and give it back in exchange for a ceasefire and money. For defending Venice, I have heard it advised (but have never tried), to put a stack outside the city, guarding the bridge. With siege engines, lots of Pavise Crossbowmen and decent defensive infantry bridge battles are relatively easy to win against superior numbers and troop quality.

One final bit of advice, which is important for all campaigns, but particularly for non-catholic/Italian factions... Ally with the Pope. As long as you and he are bedfellows, it is unlikely that the HRE will attack you, for fear of excommunication

I hope that this info has been of some use.

P.S. What Campaign difficulty are you playing?

[airborne guy]

Ok, I think I have a strategy that may work. During my Venetian campaign, the HRE never troubled me, perhaps for the reasons I am about to outline.

The biggest problem that Venice will have with HRE is Bologna. The way I got Bologna without starting a war was by doing the following.
1. Ally with HRE
2. Request a crusade to somewhere in the Holy Lands (for me, the Pope called one to Baghdad)
3. After capturing the crusade target (preferably a rich city), offer it to HRE as a trade for Bologna. I was only playing 6.1, but they accepted on VH campaign difficulty

Once Bologna is yours, you must strive to maintain your alliance. In all the campaigns playing SS, I have never had anyone break an alliance to attack me (except when I was a crusade/jihad target). As Venice, your key to victory is the Mediterranean, and thus the poor castles of Germany are not such a good target. But if you are still concerned about an HRE attack on Venice (and Milan later) would be to take Innsbruk and/or Bern. Castles defending the high passes will allow you to hold of a full HRE stack with half the number of defenders. But as long as you keep that alliance at all costs, there shouldn't be too much trouble.

Even if, after all your preventative measures, they still attack, send a stack to raid Vienna, and give it back in exchange for a ceasefire and money. For defending Venice, I have heard it advised (but have never tried), to put a stack outside the city, guarding the bridge. With siege engines, lots of Pavise Crossbowmen and decent defensive infantry bridge battles are relatively easy to win against superior numbers and troop quality.

One final bit of advice, which is important for all campaigns, but particularly for non-catholic/Italian factions... Ally with the Pope. As long as you and he are bedfellows, it is unlikely that the HRE will attack you, for fear of excommunication

I hope that this info has been of some use.

P.S. What Campaign difficulty are you playing?

I am just playing on M/M I just wanted to try them out and I am getting owned, by the HRE.

[meese]

*shrugs* I use mercs because I've got nothing else to spend money on I mean, I'm now 150 turns in and even though I only have 22 provinces, I'm getting 20,000+ each turn...with a full garrison at Zagreb, Athens, Sofia, Thessalonica, Palermo, Scopio and another two armies rampaging about in France.

Also, I like your diplomatic solution to the Bologna problem! It's not my style, but it's a lot smarter than simply bludgeoning your way around the HRE Ah, I guess we just play differently

(ie. I made the Papacy my vassal rather than kick him out of Rome)


Oh and if you stick in there for long enough (not very long), you'll gain access to peasante archers which are excellent, especially since they're made available so early. I think Venice is really only difficult in the early stages but quickly becomes quite easy when you're simply dripping with money.

[Tyrenia]

Hehehe... yeah, I am never dripping in money, even playing as rich factions. I spend waaay too much on city improvements. But I can't help myself, you can never develop a city too much IMO

[burningsoul]

At the beginning I would focus on taking Belgrade, Florence, Zagreb and Bologna if possible (the settlement is very prone for rioting - make sure you use spies to decrease happyness), you may also consider alying yourself with the pope (if a catholic faction attacks you play defensively, they will be surely excom. and the strike back without any penalties) and some neighboring factions - I have found Hungary to be a very good choice. Disbanding your navy isnt a bad idea either.
Later on, you can do what you want - i´d probably deal with the sicilians (they will attack you sooner rather than later), genoa and take some cities from hre, the byzies.
And after that my friend the world is yours to dominate

[Anaatti]

I play with RR/RC submod, so what i did in first turn i offered HRE alliance,gave them 10000 and demanded Bologna. After that i focused to grab thoes two castles at Italy and Zagreb. After that i took Pisa, Genoa and Milan. Now i got my eyes on Greece and i got Romans pretty good. I can post my empire soon

[burningsoul]

do so
BTW, is Pisa in the RR/RC submod?

[JorisofHolland]

It seems to be.

[meese]

Yes it replaced Florence

[meese]

Oh it's not vital, but certainly helpful every now and then.

[CrossSide]

Oh it's not vital, but certainly helpful every now and then.

I did love my Sabian swordsmen

[Callawyn]

Some cities are war magnets. I've had AI DoW on me by attacking Zagreb and Durazzo more than any other provinces on the map. Hungary/Venice/HRE all seem to think Zagreb is theirs and have a cassus belli against anyone else that owns it. Sicily/Byzantium/Venice all seem to think Durazzo is part of their empire, whether they own it or not.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take these provinces, just a fair warning that if you do you'll likely be attacked sooner or later. So, be prepared. The AI often starts wars over trivialities, besieging a weak border province or blockading a port is their typical opening move in a war. Pathetic, really, don't emulate them. If you can't do something decisive, best not to do anything at all. Prepare for a couple extra turns, then strike. The best way to start a war with a neighbor is to take 2-3 provinces simultaneously. You can often take a few provinces and get a ceasefire all on the same turn, and never have to face any of their field armies. Even if you don't get a ceasefire, you've started the war by crippling your enemy.

[airborne guy]

Some cities are war magnets. I've had AI DoW on me by attacking Zagreb and Durazzo more than any other provinces on the map. Hungary/Venice/HRE all seem to think Zagreb is theirs and have a cassus belli against anyone else that owns it. Sicily/Byzantium/Venice all seem to think Durazzo is part of their empire, whether they own it or not.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take these provinces, just a fair warning that if you do you'll likely be attacked sooner or later. So, be prepared. The AI often starts wars over trivialities, besieging a weak border province or blockading a port is their typical opening move in a war. Pathetic, really, don't emulate them. If you can't do something decisive, best not to do anything at all. Prepare for a couple extra turns, then strike. The best way to start a war with a neighbor is to take 2-3 provinces simultaneously. You can often take a few provinces and get a ceasefire all on the same turn, and never have to face any of their field armies. Even if you don't get a ceasefire, you've started the war by crippling your enemy.

Thanks for the advice, I have no problem with Zagreb though. I have perfect alliances with all my neighbors but the Byzantines, I think I will send my 4 stacks down their. The only thing is, when I move out to attack Byz, Genoea sends armies into my lands. I sent a spy over there and they have six full stacks, WTF, im not sue what to do here.