Don't want healthcare? Go to jail...

[JP226]

http://republicans.waysandmeans.hous...tter110509.pdf

Or at the least get penalized ontop of paying back taxes.

The jist is if you don't pay for your healthcare you are subject to a variety of civil and criminal penalities based on how badly you don't want to pay. Flat out neglect, as in reporting correctly and what not but just not paying the penalty tax for not providing healthcare to you and your family resorts in owing the amount not paid plus a 20% penalty. Then depending on "how bad" you don't comply, at the least one could be subjected to 25k fine and or up to one year in prison.

Now, why is this necessary?

[Winter]

Probably because uninsured people going to emergency rooms and not being able to pay contributes a great deal to medical cost inflation.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Probably because uninsured people going to emergency rooms and not being able to pay contributes a great deal to medical cost inflation.

No. Democrats are actually baniking (meaning it is part of their cost/budget projections) to collect some $167,000,000,000 from these fines to pay for their pogram.

[Pickle_mole]

167 billion? for what one year?

[The Devil's Sergeant]

167 billion? for what one year?

I believe that is for first 10 years.

An actually, if this thing passed I will definitely consider paying the fine instead of buying insurance (public or private) as their really isn't a reason to enroll until one gets sick, since insurers will have to accept you and cover preconditions.

[Phier]

I believe that is for first 10 years.

An actually, if this thing passed I will definitely consider paying the fine instead of buying insurance (public or private) as their really isn't a reason to enroll until one gets sick, since insurers will have to accept you and cover preconditions.

Exactly.


The whole thing is completely ridiculous.

[Winter]

No, they don't. Stopping denial for preconditions includes things like congenital conditions, early stage cancers - things that people had no knowledge of and no control over. Having a massive heartattack, a stroke, being hit by a bus - you still get to pay for those.

[JP226]

I think we are riding this precondition train a little too hard. If it were just an issue of preconditions than, the government could cover everyone across the country and pay a fraction of the costs we are looking at now. Unfortunately the issue really is the gov can't accept that fact that people just don't demand healthcare. That's not to say they don't want it, I want everything if it's free, but given their other wants such an item could and does take a back seat.

[Winter]

Nobody wants to pay for healthcare until they need to. Hindsight is 20/20. Unfortunately, many people are bankrupted by choosing not to pay for healthcare insurance. More people wind up in emergency rooms where we all pay for their care; hospitals increase prices which are passed on to us, either directly or through inflated insurance premiums.

[BNS]

It's just a payout to the insurance industry for being forced to expand coverage. We, the common people, of course are the tokens the government and the special interests toy around with up in Washington.

[JP226]

Nobody wants to pay for healthcare until they need to. Hindsight is 20/20. Unfortunately, many people are bankrupted by choosing not to pay for healthcare insurance. More people wind up in emergency rooms where we all pay for their care; hospitals increase prices which are passed on to us, either directly or through inflated insurance premiums.

That's not entirely true. If you are someone who is prone to getting sick, nevermind the preexisting conditions, than you are much more likely to get health insurance than say someone like my self who runs at the very least a mile a day and exercises their ass off. It's all about risk and given lifestyles. Why the hell should I be penalized when I eat right and behave and really don't need insurance?

What's going to be awesome with this bill is that: sure they can cut costs in terms of overhead and you the consumer paying up front, but how much wigge room does that give to an ageing population that all of a sudden plays with a system that is overburden?

[Winter]

I guess if you're a good driver as well, and you've never gotten so much as a ticket, you shouldn't have to buy auto insurance either? Right?

So you run and exercise. What happens when you fall and break your leg? What if that leg requires x-rays? What if it is a compound fracture and is harder to treat? That bill could run into the thousands - if you can't afford it, hospitals have to take the hit - since by law emergency rooms have to treat all patients - and make up for the lost revenue somehow. They therefore have to up their prices on other areas, which makes the rest of us pay more. Its the reason why medical inflation is out of control.

[JP226]

I guess if you're a good driver as well, and you've never gotten so much as a ticket, you shouldn't have to buy auto insurance either? Right?

Yes. If the costs of paying an insurance bill exceeds my once in a great while car accident, why should I waste the money?

So you run and exercise. What happens when you fall and break your leg? What if that leg requires x-rays? What if it is a compound fracture and is harder to treat? That bill could run into the thousands - if you can't afford it, hospitals have to take the hit - since by law emergency rooms have to treat all patients - and make up for the lost revenue somehow. They therefore have to up their prices on other areas, which makes the rest of us pay more. Its the reason why medical inflation is out of control.

And if I do that maybe once or twice in my younger years? Where paying for 1 or 2 visits is cheaper than the monthly rate. It's all about costs and benefits. Why pay a bill for something I rarely need? Now say I could afford paying the insurance in monthly increments, but not all at once if something went wrong, then I very well may buy insurance.

[Winter]

And what if you are hit by a bus, and require massive emergency surgery, to say nothing of the therapy you'd likely not be able to get? Can you afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially in your younger years? Requiring you to purchase insurance protects an under insured person in the middle class from having his premiums skyrocket due to medical inflation.

[JP226]

What are the odds of me getting hit by a massive bus? Akin to dying in a plane crash? That's life at that point and the risk we all take. Value of insurance is based on likelihoods of X happening. If it's something you realisitically foresee happening, such as a fatass getting a heart attack then you chuck out the cash.

[Winter]

What are the odds of me getting hit by a massive bus? Akin to dying in a plane crash? That's life at that point and the risk we all take. Value of insurance is based on likelihoods of X happening. If it's something you realisitically foresee happening, such as a fatass getting a heart attack then you chuck out the cash.

No one else should have to pay for your risk. And the bus is just an example. There is any number of horrible things that could happen to you every day. Why should hospitals, and by extension other people, have to cover your ass just because you thought your were invincible?

@ BNS

I may have mistyped. I meant to say that medical insurance inflation - that is, the increase in premiums payed on insurance plans - rises when hospitals charge larger prices for routine procedures. These increases are often due to people arriving in emergency rooms unable to pay for their treatment; all states have laws mandating treatment for everyone in emergency rooms, regardless of ability to pay. Insurance prices rise at 2x the national inflation rate.

EDIT

I should note, this is not the sole cause of price increases. Another huge problem is runaway malpractice suits which force doctors to perform more tests to cover their ass in case of being dragged into court; tort reform should be a part of healthcare reform to cut down on this.

[BNS]

@ BNS

I may have mistyped. I meant to say that medical insurance inflation - that is, the increase in premiums payed on insurance plans - rises when hospitals charge larger prices for routine procedures. These increases are often due to people arriving in emergency rooms unable to pay for their treatment; all states have laws mandating treatment for everyone in emergency rooms, regardless of ability to pay. Insurance prices rise at 2x the national inflation rate.

Well that could be worked around by buying plans that don't cover routine procedures. Of course there are all those health insurance mandates imposed by state governments that prevent that.

[BNS]

Winter. What is this medical inflation you keep on throwing around? A cost on the system is the same cost to it regardless of who pays for it.

[motiv-8]

Would I get free health care in jail?

[Winter]

I am pretty sure there are catastrophic coverage health plans out there. From what I've read in that letter in the OP (which admittedly is not much), it doesn't seem to specify if you'd need comprehensive coverage or just the bare minimum.

I have to say though, I do agree with parents having to insure their children. Its not the child's choice whether or not the parent insures him, but it is his life on the line if they suddenly can't pay for his care.