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  1. #1

    Default Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    So that's my present field of interest and I'm buying lots of literature to fill it. I already have ordered The Ancien Regime, by Ladurie, Queen Anne, by Gregg as well as The Wars of Louis XIV, 1667-1714, by John Linn. I'm planning to order Histoire de la Regence pendant la Minorité de Louis XV by Leclerq as well the Memoirs of Saint Simon.

    My question is, does anyone here know of any other good bibliography of the period? It can be both in English and French, focusing mostly on Western Europe *and* perhaps Poland. I'll be very grateful .
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Of any book on this time period, my absolute favorite is T. Blanning's The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815, hands down.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    The works of the historian Christopher Hill cover a lot of this, with a particular emphasis on the English Revolution. He's technically a Marxist historian but he's not really dogmatic about it and has very interesting ideas. An example of one of his books is Intellectual Origins of the English Revolution.

    James van Horn Melton's book The Rise of the Public in Enlightenment Europe does a good job of covering the rise of the media in both Britain and France in this period.

    Beyond that you seem to be getting a good overview of the period and I don't have much else to offer.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    When closing mid-18th Century military history you should read the works of Christopher Duffy, in particular The military experience in the age of reason

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    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis XI View Post
    So that's my present field of interest and I'm buying lots of literature to fill it. I already have ordered The Ancien Regime, by Ladurie, Queen Anne, by Gregg as well as The Wars of Louis XIV, 1667-1714, by John Linn. I'm planning to order Histoire de la Regence pendant la Minorité de Louis XV by Leclerq as well the Memoirs of Saint Simon.
    Seriously, why do you bother with the modern books in your list? It's just a waste of time, and at worst an awful revisionism of old history into a complacency with the modern age. Even if factually accurate they cannot but give the whiff of the 21st century, with all of its idiosyncrasies, and not of the 17th century with all of that age's idiosyncrasies.

    But I did notice you included LeClerc and Saint-Simon, which is good. Additionally you might want to try the Memoires of Saint-Hilaire, who was a marshall under Lord Turenne. When the same cannonball killed Turenne and sliced off Saint-Hilaire's shoulder, his son ran to console him but he responded, "Quiet, child; it is him whom we must console."

    On top of that, Enrico Davila's History of the Civil Wars in France is a monumental, towering achievement, one of the best history books you'll ever read (eyewitness, but published in 1647).

    Another thing to highly recommend are the Memoirs of Comtesse de Genlis, a survivor of the Reign of Terror, who under Napoleon returned to France, and made it her habit, in her books, to remind the boorish new Frenchmen about the old age of Europe, which was to die with her:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I was seated between two Peers at dinner; I had no trouble in taking my share in the conversation, for they spoke of nothing but politics, and addressed their conversation to their friends at the other end of the table. We returned to the drawing-room after dinner, and at the moment I was sitting down, I saw with surprise, that all the Dukes and Peers had escaped from me; each of them took hold of an arm-chair, dragged it after him, approached his neighbour, and thus formed a circle in the middle of the room.

    I was thus left quite alone with a semicircle of backs turned towards me—to be sure I saw the faces of the other half of the party. I thought at first they had seated themselves so to play at those little games that require such an arrangement, and found it very natural and proper; but it was no such thing—it was solely for the purpose of discussing the most difficult questions of state policy ; every one became a noisy orator, bawled out his opinions, interrupted his neighbour, quarrelled and talked till he got hoarse; they must all have been in a precious state of perspiration. It was a correct picture of the Chamber of Deputies; in fact it was a great deal worse, for there was no president. I had a great mind to play the part of one, and to call them to order, but I had no bell, and my feeble voice could not have been heard.

    This clamour and confusion lasted for more than an hour and a half, when I left the drawing-loom, delighted with having received the first lesson of the new customs of society, and the new code of French gallantry, of that politeness which has rendered us so celebrated throughout Europe. I confess, that, down to this moment, I had very inadequate notions of all these things.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=VrA...age&q=&f=false




    If you don't want to sift through the first-person memoirs, the early 19th century History of France by Guizot is a classic, as well as Carlyle's French Revolution. Nothing after that is worth reading.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; November 07, 2009 at 01:30 PM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
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    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Seriously, why do you bother with the modern books in your list? It's just a waste of time, and at worst an awful revisionism of old history into a complacency with the modern age. Even if factually accurate they cannot but give the whiff of the 21st century, with all of its idiosyncrasies, and not of the 17th century with all of that age's idiosyncrasies.

    ...

    If you don't want to sift through the first-person memoirs, the early 19th century History of France by Guizot is a classic, as well as Carlyle's French Revolution. Nothing after that is worth reading.
    Why, exactly? Certainly primary sources are must-reads for any period of history, but why the distaste for modern research? And if it's specifically towards a handful of older works, how far would you extend this belief to the most recent works of study on this period, and have you read them to find any specifically distasteful?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    Why, exactly? Certainly primary sources are must-reads for any period of history, but why the distaste for modern research? And if it's specifically towards a handful of older works, how far would you extend this belief to the most recent works of study on this period, and have you read them to find any specifically distasteful?
    Mainly because they write about the 21st century, although professing to write about the 17th. They cannot give any particular reason to appreciate if a certain man's actions were noble or commendable. No modern book on French history is capable of conveying aristocratic French dignity so well as that one incident from Comtesse de Genlis, as just one example.

    And the same extends for any particular period in history. No book on ancient Rome is capable of conveying Roman civic virtue as well as Polybius or Livy; or Plutarch. Which is no accident that modern books on ancient Rome don't convey much about Roman civic virtue; not only do they not do it very well, they don't even try to. Thus to find out about it one must go to the original source.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; November 07, 2009 at 02:28 PM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Mainly because they write about the 21st century, although professing to write about the 17th. They cannot give any particular reason to appreciate if a certain man's actions were noble or commendable. No modern book on French history is capable of conveying aristocratic French dignity so well as that one incident from Comtesse de Genlis, as just one example.

    And the same extends for any particular period in history. No book on ancient Rome is capable of conveying Roman civic virtue as well as Polybius or Livy; or Plutarch. Which is no accident that modern books on ancient Rome don't convey much about Roman civic virtue; not only do they not do it very well, they don't even try to. Thus to find out about it one must go to the original source.
    But there's more to the period, however, and all periods than civic virtues and gentlemanly behavior.

    T. Blanning's book does a good job, I think, presenting the intellectual and aristocratic world, and the various changes it went through over the decades.

    But for an understanding of art and music, trade and industry, and administration and religion, modern academic research should not be rejected on principle. Louis can do no wrong, so long as he has a good head on his shoulders, if he reads both old and new.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    But there's more to the period, however, and all periods than civic virtues and gentlemanly behavior.
    Correct. And those histories are filled with more than just anecdotes of gentlemanly behavior. Indeed where do you think modern historians mine their information from, other than the old histories? So why not go to the source?

    Modern histories are good for a very quick and very shoddy general look at a certain period. If one intends to have at least a half-competent understanding of it, especially of noble periods such as 17th century France (as opposed to the habits and manners of the hordes of Gengis Khan), then immersion into the values of those periods have paramount importance. From this perspective, no, history should not be just anecdotes of gentlemanly behavior. But it should be scarcely about anything else than the period's innermost values. It should saturate nearly every line possible with conveying those values to the reader. A modern historian usually is too indifferent, even hostile, to those values, making himself the biggest obstacle to the object he purports to accomplish.

    A few talented modern historians are capable of faithfully conveying a period's values, and if those values are interesting, in making them interesting to the reader, but those historians are scarce to be found. I'll tell you from personal knowledge that no such historian exists for the entire Roman period. This, despite several hundred books written on Rome, which, from this vantage point, must be all considered useless. Livy, Polybius, and Plutarch, are still the best current authors capable of conveying ancient Roman values to the reader.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; November 07, 2009 at 10:47 PM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Why the hatred of Ladurie ? I found him quite a balanced historian, to be frank! He is definitely set on destroying the revolutionary stereotypes associated with Louis XIV. I'll quote him straight off the English Blackwell edition:

    Ladurie pp. 273, Spain in the Heart:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Enlightened Despotism of the eighteenth century, in countries other than France, would take a lead from the absolutist tendencies which had flourished in all their ideal purity under Louis XIV and a handful of other rulers. Yet this despotism of the age of Enlightenment was often the work of sceptical or quasi-agnostic monarchs. It would not therefore allow itself to be held in check by the religious scruples which often restrained Louis from going too far down the road to arbitrary power. We know that the Sun-King, once the wars which made them necessary were over, stopped the imposition of certain taxes, such as the capitation and the dixième. They had only ever been imposed, and even then unwillingly, n order to provide finance for French armies in the field. It is difficult to imagine a Frederick II or even a George II, a great imposer of taxes, acting in this way, in imitation of what was, when all is said and done, a certain moderation. Overweening pride is not always to be found where simplificatory traditions, passed on through the generations by collective and repetitive historians, have said it was.

    [...]

    The historical image of the Sun-King, it is worth repeating, shifted from Lemontey through Lavisse, to Mandrou. In reality Louis, with all his splendours - ruinous, odious, costly and oppressive, or creative, organizational, rationalizing - was a man of his time. Posterity was to mythologize him as a convenient and caricatured puppet, a target for the darts aimed at him by hatred of despotism, justified in themselves but also anachronistic or teleological.

    This 'slippage of image' was already discernible in the work of Saint-Simon, the legitimate or putative father of many future errors. On his death bed, addressing the Dauphin who would become Louis XV, the Sun-King had declared in so many words: 'My dear child, you are going to the be the greatest king in the word; never forget the obligations you owe to God, do not imitate me in waging war, try to maintain peace with your neighbours, to relieve your people as much as you can, which I could not always do by reason of the necessities of the state. Always follow good advice and remember that all you are you owe to God...'. The same text as revised by Saint-Simon, departs from its initial version that we have just cited and adds some clearly unique interpolations or innovations: 'My child you are going to be a great king; do not imitate me in my taste for building, nor in my taste for war, try rather to keep at peace with your neighbours, render to God that which you owe Him, recognize your obligations to Him, make him honoured by your subjects, always follow good advice, try to relieve your peoples, which I was unfortunate enough not to be able to do.' The subtle nuances introduced in the post mortem version are evident and even amplified by the little duke who apparently cared little about reproducing accurately the almost last words of the dying king. The necessities of state have disappeared. In the same way the phrase about the king's exaggerated taste for buildings has been added by Saint-Simon, the only chronicler to do so, off his own bat, and yet the confession was thereafter supposed to have been made by Louis himself. It was a shrewed addition. The authentic text straight from the king's mouth signalled the existence of warfare with its attendant necessities, from which Louis had certainly drawn what we would consider to be excessive, frankly war-mongering and, ultimately, financially ruinous conclusions. The period between 1713 and 1740 would be different [...], a perspective which the dying Louis seems to have foreseen when he looked to the future. The Saint-Simonian texts are distorted to perfection: they present the twisted image, which would become dominant in the nineteenth century, of a delirious old king, looking back on his long life and admitting that he had let himself to be impelled throughout his reign by an obsession with war and a highly expensive taste for buildings. The idea of unfortunate necessity, for the benefit of the state, was capital in the thought of Louis XIV, yet it has totally disappeared in the interpretative reconstruction by Saint-Simon. The imputation of irrational bellicism and building mania is already in full spate, a double torrent of stereotypes which it would be very difficult to turn back towards its source.


    And finally, his witty comparison with Leopold of Austria:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    How fortunate by comparison was the Emperor Leopold I! He was clever enough not to reign for as long as Louis XIV and therefore not to offend contemporary opinion or posterity by his interminable rule. He expended his empire towards the east, but at the expense of the Turks who, luckily for him, hated westerners. He could persecute "heretics" to his heart's content without his Protestant allies in Western Europe getting too worked up, and with good reason. Luckier on this point than Louis XIV, even several decades after his death, Leopold had no vengeful Saint-Simon nor a Revolution to summon his ghost before the tribunal of History or dig up his corpse. [...] In this case hindsight was to be indulgent towards the Habsburg of Vienna if only by paralypsis. But it would not spare the Bourbon of Versailles. He would become the scapegoat for an absolutism which had lost its legitimacy [...].

    If we abstract out of our perspectives such a posteriori teleologies and ideologies there is, when we look honestly at Louis XIV, something which is beyond the facile and repetitive criticisms aimed at him. It is something on a more elevated plane, 'a subtle and incomparable touch of love and pride, something beyond ability, pure and simple, something which is almost inspiration and which gives to the efforts [of the Sun-King] that refinement which is almost an art, which is an art'.


    His criticism of Saint-Simon is harsh, but in broader light, perfectly justifiable. Mind you that he also makes good use of Leclerq, and in fact the sole way I found about him was through Ladurie's detailed bibliography. Not much buzz about this period anywhere, which is how the splendour of the epoch has been buried by catchwords, misconceptions and the like which abound in the common mind!

    In respect of your admittedly OT jest at the boorish style of the Napoleonic Age, I'll have to throw a few words of agreement. One might simply compare the cold and poor Neo-Classical facades and style of the regime with the previous age of Rococo brilliance, or the "emotional" music of Beethoven with the perfection of Bach and the fugues of Scarlatti or Handel, oh well ... Indeed a period of intellectual decadence.

    And thank you for your recommendations.
    Last edited by Marie Louise von Preussen; November 07, 2009 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Correcting Discrepancy
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    Kamen Henry - The European society 1500-1700
    Kamen Henry - The Iron century: social change in Europe, 1550-1660
    Kamen Henry - Spains road to Empire: the making of a world power in 1492 to 1763
    Kamen Henry - Spain, 1469-1714: a society in conflict

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Sources and Literature on Europe 1648-1763

    He he! The Marxist line fails as soon as we realize that the relationship between classes of the time was not merely economic, but far more complex. Poor nobles were still awarded pensions & status and being wealthy and part of the "Third Estate" still would amount to very little, but then, who said that mere wealth should be the sole measure of power? That applies only to our times.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

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