The "Jews" Fault for causing the Holocaust?

[Banana Jelly]

Before you vote no, listen to me.


Look at these timelines in History.


!~ When Hitler was at a young age, he loved art so much. He applied to an art college in Vienna once. But he got denied. He applied again, but to no avail. Now he said that the college was "owned" by jews. So his hatred
started from there.
If the Jews accepted him, Hitler wouldn't even get the idea for killing jews or mass murdering them (Called the Holocaust)



!~ He proclaimed that the Jews caused Germany's economic downfall.
But Germany became one of the superpowers in money after he started kicking out the Jews from Germany.



You can put no or things. Im just saying this.

Ill not vote until last
Crap, forgot the poll

[dogukan]

you probably mis-explained yourself...prepare your fire-wall

[Banana Jelly]

I don't know, maybe the second part I made the mistake? Yeah Im rushing. Please correct me.
Im not supporting the Holocaust. IM AGAINST THE HOLOCAUST

[Aru]

Are you saying that when someone offends you and you kill him, all of his family, friends, closer and farther relatives, it's his own fault? He clearly shouldn't offend a man with a gun, many bullets and psihological and emotional sickness.

[Poach]

1. He was rejected because his art was not up to standard. Whether the College was Jewish run or not, it was his fault he failed. You can't blame the panel that judged his art for rejecting him, they were doing their jobs and protecting the reputation of their College, not engaged in some fiendish plot to destroy Hitler (who hadn't yet even got into politics as you know).

2. Germany did not become a superpower as a direct result of kicking out the Jews. Hitler and the Nazi Party re-armed Germany, rebuilt her economy (though recently evidence has come to light disputing just how well they did that) and brought her out of a crippling recession mainly by refusing to continue payments of the Great War reparations, not because they kicked the Jews out. Had Hitler done nothing else but kick them out, nothing would have changed.

You've simply fallen for Hitler's propaganda, OP. He blamed these things on Jews because they could be linked to them, but an objective observer would see that the Jews were not the cause of these issues.

[Banana Jelly]

You've simply fallen for Hitler's propaganda, OP. He blamed these things on Jews because they could be linked to them, but an objective observer would see that the Jews were not the cause of these issues.

Nope, I stated I don't support the holocaust. I don't even like Hitler that much.

But I do love Hitler for,

1. His ability to have war against 4-6 countries and last so long to almost beat them.
2. Have an almost invincible army
3. Capturing Europe almost in full (Axis)
4. Stable economy he made with the Nazi Regime

[Aru]

Nope, I stated I don't support the holocaust. I don't even like Hitler that much.

But I do love Hitler for,

1. His ability to have war against 4-6 countries and last so long to almost beat them.
2. Have an almost invincible army
3. Capturing Europe almost in full (Axis)
4. Stable economy he made with the Nazi Regime

Each of this points was due to immoral means.

(pre)War economy was fueled by slave labor and money from banished and killed Jews and others.
Peace in conquered territories was held by massacres (200 locals for every German killed) which allowed for troops to be deployed on the front. Of course, the thing backfired and Partisans had huge support among oppressed peoples.
During the conquest across Europe the war destroyed bigger part of historical heritage that makes Europe admired today. We now have but scraps of pre-war beauty. Thank you Hitler, you truly are a savior of European civilization.

War destroyed Europe in every possible way, and continued doing damage long after. The entire war is one big tactical mistake, not just battling multiple opponents, but the war and damage it caused in infrastructure, morale, lives would have crippled the Reich for decades after the war anyway. Victory against entire World was impossible and would have lasted and lasted, even if fighting stopped there would have been cold war and no trade between Old and New World.

[Banana Jelly]

Each of this points was due to immoral means.

(pre)War economy was fueled by slave labor and money from banished and killed Jews and others.
Peace in conquered territories was held by massacres (200 locals for every German killed) which allowed for troops to be deployed on the front. Of course, the thing backfired and Partisans had huge support among oppressed peoples.
During the conquest across Europe the war destroyed bigger part of historical heritage that makes Europe admired today. We now have but scraps of pre-war beauty. Thank you Hitler, you truly are a savior of European civilization.

War destroyed Europe in every possible way, and continued doing damage long after. The entire war is one big tactical mistake, not just battling multiple opponents, but the war and damage it caused in infrastructure, morale, lives would have crippled the Reich for decades after the war anyway. Victory against entire World was impossible and would have lasted and lasted, even if fighting stopped there would have been cold war and no trade between Old and New World.

Any sources?!

You still think its not amazing how he faught both front wars? Yes the whole war was immoral, but it happened and we can't deny that fact. Now all we can do is judge on what happened. Give me the sources for the 200 people killed for every german killed. Plus ever war has its massacres, but you cant blame Hitler for people dying in a war, (except the holocaust, that was totally different) as you can't blame Hannibal for massacring 50,000 romans on Battle of Cannae. His military was amazing and beyond comprehensible.

[Aru]

Any sources?!

Sorry it's 100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kragujevac_massacre

I don't know if this was the only clear order, but such massacres with big retaliations were common.

In fact German army did the same thing to Croatian population, which were officially German allies.
And I'm certain Russians, Poles and Ukrainians fared much worse.

But this is not about massacres, this was the fact that entire WW2 German machine was fueled by immoral means. From invasions on Czechoslovakia, holocaust, massacres of war prisoners, slave labor, confiscation of property, looting of national treasures,even from allied states.

There was absolutely nothing noble about that war. In the end even victorious side caused as much destruction and formed the World according to their own wishes, not to wishes of those who they liberated. Hence we had cold war, east and west, divided world which would have healed much faster if not for the division.

I wasn't even supporting the holocaust, just some idea's I came up with, what don't you understand? Did you even read my post, regardless the second one?

Forget the holocaust, the problem is that you think that waging a war of conquest on your neighbors is a great and noble thing if you (almost) succeed and fight valiantly, and that Hitler was great leader with only minor flaw, hating Jews, something they brought on themselves because one professor rejected some mediocre Hitler's paintings. Yes, they're at best mediocre. I know plenty of art students and what they must know to enter the academy.

[Banana Jelly]

1. He was rejected because his art was not up to standard.

How could you think these art are not up to ANY college standards? Its way above standard

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you say any one of them is bad, I think you might be in some personal denial.

[Poach]

How could you think these art are not up to ANY college standards? Its way above standard

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you say any one of them is bad, I think you might be in some personal denial.

I certainly think they're excellent works, but the Fine Arts Academy felt he should be an architect rather than a painter. It doesn't matter what I think though, does it? The judges that reviewed his paintings twice and twice stated they weren't up to scratch. Hitler was completely unknown at the time, it can't be put down to the College having a grudge against him.


As already stated, Insert Name Here, much of what Hitler achieved was not a personal achievement. He does deserve credit for bring together the divided factions of the right and turning his party from an unknown entity into a political and military machine. His outstanding oratory skill got him to where he was, for that he deserves credit.

Your original point is still being beaten, you cannot blame the Jews for the Holocaust. It is incorrect (factually, not morally) to blame Jews for Hitler failing to enter the Art College, if the Judges were even Jews, they judged his paintings as critics of art, not as Jews.

It is also incorrect to blame them for holding Germany back during the recession, the Allied Powers held Germany back by forcing a broken economy to continue making the utterly unreasonable reparation payments. The Jewish population of Germany suffered under this as well, even the rich saw their wealth wiped out by hyperinflation, the Jews did not start the recession nor did they perpetuate it.

[William the Bastard]

When it comes to art

Churchill >>>>> Hitler

(You can exchange the word "art" for pretty much anything else if you like)

[Banana Jelly]

Your original point is still being beaten, you cannot blame the Jews for the Holocaust. It is incorrect (factually, not morally) to blame Jews for Hitler failing to enter the Art College, if the Judges were even Jews, they judged his paintings as critics of art, not as Jews.

I am not really saying any of this by opinion. I saw this in History Channel and History International at T.V and it stated that Hitler though of as the Jew's ruining there economy, so he kicked them out. He then started to create a better and yet stable economy with the help of the Nazi's

[Knight of Heaven]

Germany economy start to grow before hitler kick in.
Maybe they wont let him on the college becouse he didnt fit the requirements!? and if you say is true, then he chose to blame on somebody. typical mentality. Even today, we see people who dodnt get a job and blame , the others, the emigrants, that came to their country that steal their work. its an archaic conceipt typical xenophobia.
Hitler was mad. no question about it, just read his book.

But who knows?! maybe he would give a good artist, i belive the error was to blame a religious and ethenic group for a decision of the directors of the college. who were jews...that happens.
just a question. why he chose to give up on his artist career?

If the Jews accepted him, Hitler wouldn't even get the idea for killing jews or mass murdering them (Called the Holocaust)

Im pretty sure he would find another excuse...

1. His ability to have war against 4-6 countries and last so long to almost beat them

You know there is alot of people, including military experts, who say that germany lose the war becouse of hitlers decisions.

[Domen123]

1. He was rejected because his art was not up to standard.

Hmm, really?:

[Domen123]

In my opinion Hitler was a rather talented painter. See above, and:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=p...tart=0&ndsp=18

[Dr. Croccer]

Hitler was rejected from art school because he was crap at actual art, he was a good illustrator, but without an example, he failed terribly.

1. His ability to have war against 4-6 countries and last so long to almost beat them.

Not thanks to Hitler. If anything, his actions made the war significantly shorter.

2. Have an almost invincible army

Not thanks to Hitler

3. Capturing Europe almost in full (Axis)

Not thanks to Hitler.

4. Stable economy he made with the Nazi Regime

It's economy was anything but stable. It was militarily Keynesian. By 1939 annual expenditures weree bigger than annual income. The war economy was hardly stable either.

[Banana Jelly]

Hitler was rejected from art school because he was crap at actual art, he was a good illustrator, but without an example, he failed terribly.

Not thanks to Hitler. If anything, his actions made the war significantly shorter.
Not thanks to Hitler
Not thanks to Hitler.
It's economy was anything but stable. It was militarily Keynesian. By 1939 annual expenditures weree bigger than annual income. The war economy was hardly stable either.

Hmm, yes Italy may havve helped, but there not even any significance. All of the activity from the Axis was from Japan and Germany, as Japan was occupied with the Americans, germany had to fight in Europe.

How can you say Hitlers military wasn't in thanks to him? His S.S was indestructable and his Panzer tanks were above high standards.

He made the war shorter, but still he took down hell with him.

Ok, Im wrong I stated it in the second post, but he made it much stable after the last leader of Germany. Before him, people were burning money for warmth because of the ing inflated economy Germany had. He was also loved by many people In Germany.


Every artist needs a base to create art. You can't just make up things out of thin air without thinking about it first. Im good at art, but without a base, it takes me forever to create even something, and you can't blame Hitler for that.

If anything, making pictures from his mind isn't really a significant grade to go to college. I think the college was unbiased, how can a college not except a fantastic artist like him?

[Ataegina]

hope this get locked....

no further comment!

[Banana Jelly]

hope this get locked....

no further comment!

I wasn't even supporting the holocaust, just some idea's I came up with, what don't you understand? Did you even read my post, regardless the second one?