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Thread: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

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  1. #1
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    So much for the claims of all the Iranian apologists on this board that there is no evidence of a clandestine Iranian nuclear warhead program, and that Iran only wants nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

    I fully expect to see other apologists make the argument that Iran somehow has a "right" to nuclear warheads, while fully ignoring that the country is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

    Source
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Julian Borger, diplomatic editor
    guardian.co.uk, Thursday 5 November 2009 20.45 GMT

    An Iranian long-range Shahab-3 missile being fired at an unspecified location. Photograph: Press TV/AFP/Getty Images

    The UN's nuclear watchdog has asked Iran to explain evidence suggesting that Iranian scientists have experimented with an advanced nuclear warhead design, the Guardian has learned.

    The very existence of the technology, known as a "two-point implosion" device, is officially secret in both the US and Britain, but according to previously unpublished documentation in a dossier compiled by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Iranian scientists may have tested high-explosive components of the design. The development was today described by nuclear experts as "breathtaking" and has added urgency to the effort to find a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear crisis.

    The sophisticated technology, once mastered, allows for the production of smaller and simpler warheads than older models. It reduces the diameter of a warhead and makes it easier to put a nuclear warhead on a missile.

    Documentation referring to experiments testing a two-point detonation design are part of the evidence of nuclear weaponisation gathered by the IAEA and presented to Iran for its response.

    The dossier, titled "Possible Military Dimensions of Iran's Nuclear Program", is drawn in part from reports submitted to it by western intelligence agencies.

    The agency has in the past treated such reports with scepticism, particularly after the Iraq war. But its director general, Mohamed ElBaradei, has said the evidence of Iranian weaponisation "appears to have been derived from multiple sources over different periods of time, appears to be generally consistent, and is sufficiently comprehensive and detailed that it needs to be addressed by Iran".

    Extracts from the dossier have been published previously, but it was not previously known that it included documentation on such an advanced warhead. "It is breathtaking that Iran could be working on this sort of material," said a European government adviser on nuclear issues.

    James Acton, a British nuclear weapons expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said: "It's remarkable that, before perfecting step one, they are going straight to step four or five ... To start with more sophisticated designs speaks of level of technical ambition that is surprising."

    Another western specialist with extensive knowledge of the Iranian programme said: "It raises the question of who supplied this to them. Did AQ Khan [a Pakistani scientist who confessed in 2004 to running a nuclear smuggling ring] have access to this, or is it another player?"

    The revelation of the documents comes at a time of growing tension. Tehran has so far rejected a deal that would remove most of its enriched uranium stockpile for a year and replace it with nuclear fuel rods which would be much harder to turn into weapons. The Iranian government has also balked at negotiations, which were due to begin last week, over its continued enrichment of uranium, in defiance of UN security council resolutions.

    There are fears in Washington and London that if no deal is reached to at least temporarily defuse tensions by the end of December, Israel could set in motion plans to take military action aimed at setting back the Iranian programme by force, with incalculable consequences for the Middle East.

    Iran has rejected most of the IAEA material on weaponisation as forgeries, but has admitted carrying out tests on multiple high-explosive detonations synchronised to within a microsecond. Tehran has told the agency that there is a civilian application for such tests, but has so far not provided any evidence for them.

    Western weapons experts say there are no such civilian applications, but the use of co-ordinated detonations in nuclear warheads is well known. They compress the fissile core, or pit, of the warhead until it reaches critical mass.

    A US national intelligence estimate two years ago said that Iran had explored nuclear warhead design for several years but had probably stopped in 2003. British, French and German officials have said they believe weaponisation continued after that date and may still be continuing.

    In September, a German court found a German-Iranian businessman, Mohsen Vanaki, guilty of brokering the sale of dual-use equipment with possible applications in developing nuclear weapons. The equipment included specialised high-speed cameras, of the sort used to develop implosion devices, as well as radiation detectors. According to a report by the Institute for Science and International Security, the German foreign intelligence service, the Bundesnachrichtendienst, testified at the trial that there was evidence that Iran's weapons development was continuing.

    The IAEA is seeking to find out what the scientists and the institutions involved in the experiments are doing now, but has so far not been given a response. The agency's repeated requests to interview Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, whose name features heavily in the IAEA's documentation and who is widely seen as the father of the Iranian nuclear programme, have been turned down.

    The agency has also asked Iran to explain evidence that a Russian weapons expert helped Iranian technicians to master synchronised high-explosive detonations.

    The first implosion devices, like the "Fat Man" bomb dropped on Nagasaki on 9 August 1945, used 32 high-explosive hexagons and pentagons arrayed around a plutonium core like the panels of a football. The IAEA has a five-page document describing experimentation on such a hemispherical array of explosives.

    According to a diplomat familiar with the IAEA documentation, the evidence also points to experiments with a two-point detonation system that represents "a more elegant solution" to the challenges of making a nuclear warhead, but it is much harder to achieve. It is used in conjunction with a non-spherical pit, in the shape of a rugby ball, or explosives in that shape wrapped around a spherical pit, and it works by compressing the pit from both ends.The IAEA has expressed "serious concern" about Iran's failure to give an account of the research its scientists have carried out.

    Descriptions of "two-point implosion" warheads designs have occasionally appeared in the public domain (there are extensive descriptions on Wikipedia) and they were first developed by US scientists in the 1950s, but it remains an offence for American officials or even non-governmental nuclear experts with security clearance to discuss them.
    Long quoted articles, multiple videos, and large pictures should be posted in spoilers. -- VP
    Last edited by Viking Prince; November 06, 2009 at 06:40 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius View Post
    So much for the claims of all the Iranian apologists on this board that there is no evidence of a clandestine Iranian nuclear warhead program, and that Iran only wants nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

    I fully expect to see other apologists make the argument that Iran somehow has a "right" to nuclear warheads, while fully ignoring that the country is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

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    They tend to be the same apologists.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    911 part deux: Iran's invasion

  4. #4
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    But...but...it's just for energy....for their people....

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    Stalins Ghost's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Meh. So long as Trident upgrades are still on the cards, I think Iran has every right to nuclear weapons.
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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    ^^I agree that it is very hypocritical. However it doesn't change the fact that Iran has a government that got to power through a rigged election, with a leader who apparently hates Israel and seemed like an all-round nutter in a reletively unstable area of the world in which nukes are far more likely to be used then in Europe or North America.
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  7. #7
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    When it comes to a country as unstable as Iran, I think it's about time to say "**** your rights". Who cares if we have the authority to tell another country whether they can or cannot have nukes. Are you actually going to let something like that get in the way of stopping a clear enemy of your get nuclear weapons? It's irresponsible.

    Luckily they signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty so it's not an issue as in this case, we do have the moral right.

  8. #8
    Stalins Ghost's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    When it comes to weapons designed to level entire civilian population centres, no country has the moral right. Any nation that has or covets nuclear weaponry is just as bad as another in my books.
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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius View Post
    So much for the claims of all the Iranian apologists on this board that there is no evidence of a clandestine Iranian nuclear warhead program, and that Iran only wants nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

    I fully expect to see other apologists make the argument that Iran somehow has a "right" to nuclear warheads, while fully ignoring that the country is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

    Source
    glad my arguments on these boards and in rl over the last....quite a few years now...have been vindicated.

    Another point for the realists of the board!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalins Ghost View Post
    When it comes to weapons designed to level entire civilian population centres, no country has the moral right. Any nation that has or covets nuclear weaponry is just as bad as another in my books.
    hence the non proliferation treaty. the members of which have decreased their nuclear arsenals pretty substantially over the last 20 years. Reality dictates that it cant be an immediate thing. States like Iran and NK though, dont particularly care for the rules apparently (i would throw Syria in but the israelis have sorted them out already because they actually have these things called balls)

    this diplomatic path has been taken for far too long now and its pretty evident that we're getting absolutely nowhere with it.
    Last edited by Carach; November 06, 2009 at 02:03 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    I can't say that Iran has a legal right to nuclear weapons.

    However I dare say nuclear deterrence might have a chance of forcing peace on the region, after all how peaceful has it been with only Israel holding the nukes? Works for North Korea.
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  11. #11
    Dolgorukiy's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I can't say that Iran has a legal right to nuclear weapons.

    However I dare say nuclear deterrence might have a chance of forcing peace on the region, after all how peaceful has it been with only Israel holding the nukes? Works for North Korea.
    Right... Because having a three or more sided nuclear arms race in the world's most unstable region will bring peace fo' shaw.



  12. #12

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolgorukiy View Post
    Right... Because having a three or more sided nuclear arms race in the world's most unstable region will bring peace fo' shaw.
    When was the last time two nuclear powers went to war against each other, hm?
    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius
    I fully expect to see other apologists make the argument that Iran somehow has a "right" to nuclear warheads, while fully ignoring that the country is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
    NPT, eh? Well, Iran could just withdraw from the treaty and be a non-signatory like Israel. What's the criticism then, Caelius? They're "crazy" ?
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  13. #13
    Dolgorukiy's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    When was the last time two nuclear powers went to war against each other, hm?
    Firstly, during the cold war no power could achieve First Strike Capability against the other, therefore direct conflict was considered out of the question.

    Secondly, proxy wars raged all over the globe. Calling it "peace" would be a tiny wee inaccurate, to put it very mildly.



  14. #14

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolgorukiy View Post
    Firstly, during the cold war no power could achieve First Strike Capability against the other, therefore direct conflict was considered out of the question.
    And? The Cold War ended twenty years ago, and at least one particular country acquired nuclear weapons and has managed not to blow up its neighbor as of yet.
    Secondly, proxy wars raged all over the globe. Calling it "peace" would be a tiny wee inaccurate, to put it very mildly.
    Well hold on, that doesn't have anything to do with my question. I never mentioned the word "peace", and I am well aware of proxy wars, which are irrelevant. Answer the question.
    Last edited by motiv-8; November 06, 2009 at 04:10 PM.
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

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    persianfan247's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    But no one used any nuclear missiles. Most likely opponents to Iran in a nuclear Arms race, Saudi Arabia, Israel and the Gulf states maybe Turkey, all others will either be neutral or side cautiously with Iran .

    Anyway so the article uses the word "appears" alot, though I guess apparent conistent reports is pretty daming, how long ago were these tests anyway, they wouldn't happen to have been before 2003 would they?
    Last edited by persianfan247; November 06, 2009 at 04:00 PM.





  16. #16
    Saxon wårolord's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    NPT, eh? Well, Iran could just withdraw from the treaty and be a non-signatory like Israel. What's the criticism then, Caelius? They're "crazy" ?
    Don't you understand?

    IRAN HAS VIOLATED AN AGREEMENT.

    To be honest, I've had enough of this show about the so-called 'Iranian opposition': the persians have consciously reelected Mahmud(meymoon), there is nothing else to add.
    Last edited by Saxon wårolord; November 07, 2009 at 11:40 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon wårolord View Post
    Don't you understand?

    IRAN HAS VIOLATED AN AGREEMENT.

    To be honest, I've had enough of this show about the so-called 'Iranian opposition': the persians have consciously reelected Mahmud(meymoon), there is nothing else to add.
    Oh my god. Burn them, kill them, maim them. They are dangerous for the international stability. They have done something EVERYONE else did!!111!!!one!

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    When was the last time two nuclear powers went to war against each other, hm?
    Yeah, because the cold war meant no war.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

  19. #19
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by Major.Stupidity
    I like how Caelius and his ilk ignore the fact that Iran's quest for nuclear weapons and proliferation in the Middle East is linked to Israel having nukes - which no one seems to criticize.
    Israel never signed the NPT. Iran....did.

    Get over it.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design in secret - says IAEA

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I can't say that Iran has a legal right to nuclear weapons.

    However I dare say nuclear deterrence might have a chance of forcing peace on the region, after all how peaceful has it been with only Israel holding the nukes? Works for North Korea.
    What? World has legal things to follow? Its an indipendant country and it can do whatever it want's.

    I won't be surprised if the nuke was launched at Israel, but it didn't.









    Don't think any country is irresponsible just because there not "America" ( In general, not just you.)
    Last edited by Banana Jelly; November 06, 2009 at 04:37 PM.

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