Morale and discipline status

[Parzival2211]

In the unit stats, there is a figure that shows the morale of a unit, behind that it says either low, normal, disciplined or impetuous (did I forget anything?).

Now, I'm wondering: It seems to be possible to give a unit a low morale of, let's say 3, but also the disciplined status, which is normally given to units with a high morale. Hence, the two things must have separate effects. Does anyone know what the effect of low, normal, disciplined (impetuous is clear, they may charge without orders) status by itself is?

Another question: It is said about the Training: A description of how well units follow formation. What does that mean in practice?

[G-Megas-Doux]

The two different morale considerations are for one to show the maximum moral a unit can have and the other is to show how quickly they loose and recover their morale.

The second question just means that when you choose the option for units in formation not to be rigid and perfect but more like real life, some soldiers may straggle away from the unit, a good example would be when routing, would they all route in formation? No.

[Deux]

The Org is down at the moment, if it is up shortly I will tell you exactly what they mean Parzival. Until then though I can only go on memory.

Morale is the key element in a unit routing. A low value usually found on peasants will make a unit rout as soon as they notice fire or a cavalry charge. A high value will be able to withstand both. Also if they do rout they will have a better chance of reforming if their morale value/ discipline is high.

Discipline is a little trickier, orders such as 'hold the line' will be better adhered to if discipline is high. A low value and your units will break the line.

Barbarian units are usually poorly trained, this means that they will line up in uneven lines and formations, march in uneven formations, charge individually instead of as a unit. A high value for the Romans will mean the complete opposite of this. Routing is a poor example, unfortunately, all all units rout in uneven formations and basically it is every man for themselves to flee the battlefield.

The Org has a full subforum dedicated to research such as this.

[Parzival2211]

Thank you guys. +rep

Deux: I understand the concept of morale, my question was just about the significance of the 2 different aspects in the stats. But if you find out more, I'll appreciate if you let me know.

[MortenJessen]

Hi there.
It is really quite easy. Morale is how strong a unit is when it comes to chok, terror, taking losses and being attacked from the rear. A unit with a strong morale (e.g. for example Urbans, Spartans Companions) will keep fighting longer under those conditions, while a unit with a poor morale (Townwatch, peasants and many mercenaries) will break and run. Taking heavy losses from a missile barrage or being attacked by elephants or chariots or attacked in the rear by cavalry are all good examples of such things.
Discipline is how well a unit handles orders in battle. A legionary cohort is a well disciplined unit that marches and attacks as a single, coherent unit. When an order is given, they carry it out in a well diciplined formation. Many babarian units cant be controlled that easy, they attack with out orders, they do not keep formation, and so on. They are un-disciplined (but not necessarily bad soldiers because of that).
Changing the stats, as you are talking about, for discipline, changes how well a unit handles orders and how well they keep formation. Changing the morale stats, changes how long a unit will stand and fight when odds are against them, before they break and flees.
I hope this helps you out.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

[Parzival2211]

Thanks, Morten.
But are you sure you are not mixing up discipline and training in the second paragraph of your post.

[MortenJessen]

Thanks, Morten.
But are you sure you are not mixing up discipline and training in the second paragraph of your post.

Hi there.
I am quite sure that I am not mixing those two things. How ever, the number of chevrons (I persume that is what you are talking about) has a lot to do with morale. An experienced unit, with lets say three bronze chevrons, has a better morale than the same kind of unit with zero chevrons. And a unit with three gold chevrons has a far better morale than the one with only three bronze chevrons.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

[Genius of the Restoration]

You could take a look at ForlornHope's detailed guide. I think he mentions it in there IIRC
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2215

[Parzival2211]

Thanks again, Morten and Genius.

I didn't refer to the chevrons. I meant the figures in the descr unit stats file. It shows, e.g., 10, disciplined, trained. The figure as well as the disciplined determine the morale. I'm wondering how those two things influence each other.l It's possible to change the figure to 2 and still leave the 2nd value on disciplined. Question is whether the unit routs early because of the 2, or late because of the high level of discipline?

[MortenJessen]

Another question: It is said about the Training: A description of how well units follow formation. What does that mean in practice?

Hi there.
Again, it says something about how well drilled a unit is and how well it holds formation in battle. It represents values like resistance to shock, terror and nasty surprises like fatigue and weather. It tells you for how long a unit, as a coherent fighting organisation, will stand its ground and hold on. Extremely well trained units like Spartans and Urbans are likely to see even the worst of defeats trough to the end. No matter the odds. And they will do it in a disciplined manner, keep following orders and keeping formation.
Changing the stats how ever, in the way you describe it, will most likely result in either a better trained unit with high morale, meaning it will have better stamania and resistance to shock-effects in battle. Or a unit with better cohesion in their formations. There is one more detail that I have thought over for some time; I wonder my self if training also has something to do with campaign movement range....
As of now, that is all I remember from the stats-section, since it has been some time since I myself experimented with those.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

[Parzival2211]

Thank you again, Morten.

[Deux]

As I promised Parz, the Ludus Magna at the ORG.

Here's one you may like..

Research: Unit Morale

[Parzival2211]

Thanks, Deux. An interesting discussion there.

[Ciisar]

Morality is expected to rise and fall of itself with battles. I think