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Thread: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

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  1. #1

    Default Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    The more I see and hear about Dmitri the more optimistic I get on both Russias and Europes future..

    MOSCOW — Russia’s president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, warned Friday that Russians had lost their sense of horror over Stalin’s purges, and called for the construction of museums and memorial centers devoted to the atrocities, as well as further efforts to unearth and identify the dead.

    Mr. Medvedev made the comments on his video blog, on the occasion of a holiday devoted to the memory of victims of repression. He warned that revisionist historians risked glossing over the darker passages of the Soviet past, citing a poll that showed that 90 percent of young people could not name victims of the purges.
    “Even now we can hear voices saying that these numerous deaths were justified by some supreme goals of the state,” Mr. Medvedev said. “Nothing can be valued above human life, and there is no excuse for repressions.”
    Millions of people were killed under Stalin as a result of forced collectivization, deportation of ethnic groups, imprisonment in the Gulag and party purges, among other tactics.
    Though he reiterated his worry that Russia was demonized in contemporary histories of World War II, Mr. Medvedev added, “It is just as important to prevent the justification, under the pretext of putting historical records straight, of those who killed their own people.”
    Russia’s leaders have long sought to shape the teaching of Soviet-era history, but Mr. Medvedev did something unusual by focusing attention on its crimes.
    Under Mr. Medvedev’s predecessor, Vladimir V. Putin, Russian opinions of Stalin became far rosier. Government-endorsed textbooks now balance Stalin’s atrocities with praise for his achievements — especially victory over Hitler — and recent polls show that most Russians believe Stalin did more good than bad. Meanwhile, leaders have railed against Eastern European historians who paint Soviet forces as occupiers, and in May Mr. Medvedev created a commission to prevent such attempts to “falsify history.”
    Arseny Roginsky, chairman of the human rights organization Memorial, said Mr. Medvedev’s speech struck directly at “the center of the contemporary discussion of Stalin and Stalinism — the question about victory and the price of victory.”
    Though Mr. Putin spoke with compassion of Stalin’s victims on the same holiday in 2007, Mr. Medvedev went much further by offering concrete proposals about museums and the search for mass graves, Mr. Roginsky said.
    Whether those proposals are realized “depends entirely on Mr. Medvedev and the current authorities,” he added.
    “What we are waiting to see is whether he has the power to realize even part of our expectations,” he said. “I have serious doubts about that. But of course, I am waiting.”
    The president’s remarks came as good news to Roman V. Romanov, the deputy director of the State Museum of the History of the Gulag, a cluster of five rooms whose entrance is in a courtyard off Petrovka, one of Moscow’s most upscale shopping streets. The signage is so poor, Mr. Romanov complained, “that people walk down Petrovka and don’t even know we’re here,” and he gently criticized the exhibits as “a bit provincial.”
    There is, as well, a generational problem. At 27, Mr. Romanov is younger than his co-workers by 30 or 40 years. When he took the job, he said, people his age did not understand, and a friend tried to talk him out of it.
    “He told me not to do it,” Mr. Romanov said. “He said it was too depressing, and I needed to be more positive. He thought this was all about criminals. I told him, ‘Now I understand I am doing the right thing.’ ”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/wo...ssia.html?_r=1
    lol

  2. #2
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    This is a good sign, but I never trust the words of a politician

  3. #3

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    That is true. But I saw the GPS interview on CNN with him, and he gave a really good impression. He came off as a sympathetic guy.
    lol

  4. #4

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    While I applaud his comments on Stalin his commission to "correct" untruths like the Russians were occupiers (they were, all that ended up happening was Russians replaced the Germans in alot of places) is laughable if that is their stated goals. The truth of Stalin should be simple, Stalin was a monster less of one then Hitler yes but a monster never the less but acknowledging it doesnt take away from Russian soldiers and people's bravery in fighting the Germans but one also has to acknowledge the blame for it falls again on, Stalin and his initial scheming with Hitler which basically helped it happen.

    So seems pretty simple way to sell it, the Russian people lead to near disaster but a monster, idiotic leader managed to overcome it all despite Stalin not because of him. Should help appeal to Russian nationalism while being closer to the truth.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    The truth of Stalin should be simple, Stalin was a monster less of one then Hitler yes but a monster never the less but acknowledging it doesnt take away from Russian soldiers and people's bravery in fighting the Germans but one also has to acknowledge the blame for it falls again on, Stalin and his initial scheming with Hitler which basically helped it happen.

    So seems pretty simple way to sell it, the Russian people lead to near disaster but a monster, idiotic leader managed to overcome it all despite Stalin not because of him. Should help appeal to Russian nationalism while being closer to the truth.

    The truth is, allied leaders were also guilty of mass murdering civillians. And allied countries hasnt even admitted that the fire bombing of Berlin, tokyo, Dresden, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes against humanity.

    Kudos to the Russian president.
    lol

  6. #6

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    The truth is, allied leaders were also guilty of mass murdering civillians. And allied countries hasnt even admitted that the fire bombing of Berlin, tokyo, Dresden, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes against humanity.

    Kudos to the Russian president.
    Ah yes here we go THAT argument again. Those attacks were against nations the allies were at war against, a war started by those nations while Stalin's actions were in large part against his OWN people. The topic is Stalin, if you want to call Truman a monster go right ahead, just dont be surprised when you are laughed at because of it but this is about Stalin. Crimes against humanity or not it says something when Germans rushed to try to surrender to allies vs being at the mercy of Stalin no?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Ah yes here we go THAT argument again

    Its all relative. Point being there plenty of wrong to go around. You cant hold the Russian to a standard and not follow the same standard yourself.
    lol

  8. #8

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Ah yes here we go THAT argument again. Those attacks were against nations the allies were at war against, a war started by those nations while Stalin's actions were in large part against his OWN people. The topic is Stalin, if you want to call Truman a monster go right ahead, just dont be surprised when you are laughed at because of it but this is about Stalin. Crimes against humanity or not it says something when Germans rushed to try to surrender to allies vs being at the mercy of Stalin no?
    Probably because Germans didn't do things to French that they did to Russians. They probably didn't want to get captured by people, whose families they killed and whose cities they destroyed.

  9. #9
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    While I applaud his comments on Stalin his commission to "correct" untruths like the Russians were occupiers (they were, all that ended up happening was Russians replaced the Germans in alot of places) is laughable if that is their stated goals. The truth of Stalin should be simple, Stalin was a monster less of one then Hitler yes but a monster never the less but acknowledging it doesnt take away from Russian soldiers and people's bravery in fighting the Germans but one also has to acknowledge the blame for it falls again on, Stalin and his initial scheming with Hitler which basically helped it happen.

    So seems pretty simple way to sell it, the Russian people lead to near disaster but a monster, idiotic leader managed to overcome it all despite Stalin not because of him. Should help appeal to Russian nationalism while being closer to the truth.
    I would disagree that Stalin was less evil than Hitler, and I am worried about the future of Russia.. with the fall of the Union the oligarchs took power and it seems Russia is even less free than it was during its Soviet period..


  10. #10

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slurricane View Post
    I would disagree that Stalin was less evil than Hitler, and I am worried about the future of Russia.. with the fall of the Union the oligarchs took power and it seems Russia is even less free than it was during its Soviet period..
    I don't know if their less free, but they are certainly worse off, for all the evils of the USSR, atleast you had a state education system, free healthcare, and a guarenteed pension. In modern Russia, you have all the repression with none of the benifits.
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  11. #11
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slurricane View Post
    I would disagree that Stalin was less evil than Hitler, and I am worried about the future of Russia.. with the fall of the Union the oligarchs took power and it seems Russia is even less free than it was during its Soviet period..
    to try to be objective, I think it is about the same as it was then,but the nostalgia for the Soviet times remains:



    Quote Originally Posted by Hookah Smoking Caterpiller View Post
    I don't know if their less free, but they are certainly worse off, for all the evils of the USSR, atleast you had a state education system, free healthcare, and a guarenteed pension. In modern Russia, you have all the repression with none of the benifits.
    It's about the same, healthcare is crumbling somewhat, I saw this when I visited Botkin hospital in Moscow where my dad used to practice in the 1970s, which was and supposedly still is one of the better hospitals:

    where he had his practice:



    not much has changed since the 70s LOL
    Last edited by Babur; November 02, 2009 at 07:10 AM.
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  12. #12
    Lord Consul's Avatar Armchair intellectual
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    While I applaud his comments on Stalin his commission to "correct" untruths like the Russians were occupiers (they were, all that ended up happening was Russians replaced the Germans in alot of places) is laughable if that is their stated goals. The truth of Stalin should be simple, Stalin was a monster less of one then Hitler yes but a monster never the less but acknowledging it doesnt take away from Russian soldiers and people's bravery in fighting the Germans but one also has to acknowledge the blame for it falls again on, Stalin and his initial scheming with Hitler which basically helped it happen.

    So seems pretty simple way to sell it, the Russian people lead to near disaster but a monster, idiotic leader managed to overcome it all despite Stalin not because of him. Should help appeal to Russian nationalism while being closer to the truth.
    How can Stalin be considered less of a monster than Hitler? Stalin killed 10 million people in his own country, adding up the numbers of both the victims of the purge and of the Holodor.
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  13. #13
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    The Russian elite hates whatever communist and they got trillions of reasons. The simple, lately unemployed man however not so much, for a couple of reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  14. #14

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Who cares?Stalin is dead since 1953 and Soviet Union stopped to exist since 1991.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Stalin was logical as far as foreign policy is concerned.Hitler was dangerous for all Europe

  16. #16
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPirate View Post
    Stalin was logical as far as foreign policy is
    concerned.Hitler was dangerous for all Europe
    that's quite a realist way of putting it
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  17. #17
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPirate View Post
    Stalin was logical as far as foreign policy is concerned.Hitler was dangerous for all Europe
    Being logical doesn't make you less of a monster, simply a more dangerous one.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  18. #18

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    If only...

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  19. #19

    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    If only...


    no, he was in favour of world revolution with the Red Army as the agent of revolution, would also have lead to carnage.

  20. #20
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Russian president : Don’t Gloss Over Stalin’s Crimes.

    Seems there is some incompatibility between Medvedev and the party line. Right on!
    Stalin was a murderous bustard, and no great victories are going to change that.
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    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

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