Calvin

**dvk901** · October 28, 2009, 01:33 PM

I put a short announcement in the forum for Calvin.

**Theoroshia** · October 28, 2009, 02:13 PM

Whomever deleted War lords posts (and mine), thank you. He is...well, it's beyond words.

**Brusilov** · October 28, 2009, 08:43 PM

The same for the post by Ojf - asking if it was going to delay the mod (post #65). What a disgraceful post.

**The Sloth** · October 29, 2009, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Brusilov

The same for the post by Ojf - asking if it was going to delay the mod (post #65). What a disgraceful post.

Even if the way he put it shows an appealing lack of tact, he's right in that it is something we should worry about. Because if anything, Calvins death should be one more reason to finish this mod.
... which is where the trouble starts. The way I see it, traits were one of the major projects that were still one the to-do-list. Do we even have anyone who has the skill and free time required to finish the trait system within a couple of months?

**Theoroshia** · October 28, 2009, 08:58 PM

A disgrace to all that is right and moral.

**cherryfunk** · October 29, 2009, 06:31 AM

It's a good question. Squid has a high level of proficiency with traits, but I don't know how much time he has or if he can take it on.

**dvk901** · October 29, 2009, 08:30 AM

I don't know if Ojf meant to be rude......sure, some people have poor tact, but he could be 14 years old too. Death is pretty foreign to the invincible teenager.

And, much as I hate to say it, the question was one that he asked...and I was pondering. In truth, our trait system was a collaboration of ideas between Calvin and myself, and others who shared them. How that got put together, what he intended or was working on....well, it died with him.

At present we don't have anyone (that I know of) who could step up and replace him....Squid is quite buried in RL just as I am. So I don't know. This was an important area I dearly wanted to change for the better.

**Killerbee** · October 29, 2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by dvk901

I don't know if Ojf meant to be rude......sure, some people have poor tact, but he could be 14 years old too. Death is pretty foreign to the invincible teenager.

And, much as I hate to say it, the question was one that he asked...and I was pondering. In truth, our trait system was a collaboration of ideas between Calvin and myself, and others who shared them. How that got put together, what he intended or was working on....well, it died with him.

At present we don't have anyone (that I know of) who could step up and replace him....Squid is quite buried in RL just as I am. So I don't know. This was an important area I dearly wanted to change for the better.

The least thing to honor Calvin that we can do is to complete this mod, with the whole new trait and anc system, even though it takes us extra months.

**cherryfunk** · October 30, 2009, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Blackadder

The least thing to honor Calvin that we can do is to complete this mod, with the whole new trait and anc system, even though it takes us extra months.

This is an honorable sentiment, but if it's a choice between releasing RS2 with a trait system that isn't fully understood and is still causing CTDs, or removing the system to release a bug-free mod, my vote is for the latter.

**cherryfunk** · October 29, 2009, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by dvk901

And, much as I hate to say it, the question was one that he asked...and I was pondering. In truth, our trait system was a collaboration of ideas between Calvin and myself, and others who shared them. How that got put together, what he intended or was working on....well, it died with him.

At present we don't have anyone (that I know of) who could step up and replace him....Squid is quite buried in RL just as I am. So I don't know. This was an important area I dearly wanted to change for the better.

Well Suppanut over at XGM offered to let us use his ethnic trait system, and we may be able to use the entire XGM trait system if we ask (though I'm not sure how different it is from vanilla beyond Supanut's work).

**Maximus Macro** · October 30, 2009, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

Well Suppanut over at XGM offered to let us use his ethnic trait system, and we may be able to use the entire XGM trait system if we ask (though I'm not sure how different it is from vanilla beyond Supanut's work).

are the traits and leadershipsysthems of EB free to be used by other mods? Cause they are really good and very accurate.

**Alavaria** · October 29, 2009, 08:33 AM

There are kind of two separate issues (as I see it):

First, the Roman leadership tree ... there's some code and some of it works but it was also causing CTDs and CTD-less errors, if I remember correctly.
Second, there are many "effect-less" personality traits put in, which were supposed to lead into other traits (with effects) but I don't think those were ever coded, as he was working on the Roman leadership thing.

Yeah, Squid wrote the guide to traits & ancs, which I was reading yesterday. Amazing stuff you can do with traits.

Since we're on the topic, could someone move the roman leadership thread from the main forum to one of these ones? Until we have a coder who can answer questions (and be sure we will have the traits in come release) I'm afraid the thread may confuse people.

**The Sloth** · October 29, 2009, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Alavaria

There are kind of two separate issues (as I see it):
First, the Roman leadership tree ... there's some code and some of it works but it was also causing CTDs and CTD-less errors, if I remember correctly.
Second, there are many "effect-less" personality traits put in, which were supposed to lead into other traits (with effects) but I don't think those were every coded, as he was working on the Roman leadership thing.

Yeah, Squid wrote the guide to traits & ancs, which I was reading yesterday. Amazing stuff you can do with traits.

Not only that. It's also the trait triggers. When do you get a trait? And the ancillaries. One of the original ideas of this was to get rid of the anciallary spam... which is currently worse than ever.

I'd volunteer to take over the traits, but I have nowhere near the knowledge of Calvin, let alone Squid, so the leadership system wouldn't be able to be fixed. Also, I never really got the vision Calvin and Dvk had of this, and didn't agree with it anyway. And my free time doesn't look too impressive either. Still, since we have (I believe) barely anyone who has some experience with this, if there's anything I can do, tell me.

**Ketchup** · October 29, 2009, 08:40 AM

Oh man, I just saw this. How awful, he will be missed. RIP Calvin.

**Theoroshia** · October 29, 2009, 08:59 AM

I've been doing some modifications of the Medieval II traits file to get rid of some of those stupid ancillaries. I'm no expert, but any help I can offer makes me feel useful.

**Alavaria** · October 29, 2009, 09:00 AM

Sorry, yeah - when I said traits, I mean the trait file - I always link traits and triggers mentally since you literally need a trigger to gain traits. (well except for the starting characters i guess)

Does anyone have Calvin's diagram for the military career? It's disappeared, and I hope we haven't lost it when imageshack dropped the picture.
--I think I can understand how he intended the tree to look like, since he made the progress clear, but coding is kind of beyond me as I never tinkered with traits in a big way.

I wonder about code like this:

Trigger Character_Offered_For_Marriage_Roman
WhenToTest OfferedForMarriage

Condition CultureType roman
and FactionType romans_brutii

Affects Patrician 1 Chance 10
Affects Equestrian 1 Chance 80
Affects Plebeian 1 Chance 60

There's a "backup" trigger that makes a character Plebeian if they don't have any of these traits.

However, if I read this bit here correctly, if the character gets "patrician", they can't get "equestrian/plebeian" as they are anti-traits, & there is a no going back level. Similarly for Equestrian and Plebeian. So why not just set the plebeian "chance" to 100? RTW reads and checks from top to bottom, no there shouldn't be any issue, right ...?

BTW, the way it is set up is really amazing. Merchants, for example, would ideally stay in a very developed city (like Rome) where they can go up in their career rank in the least possible time. Then, you'd move them over to other settlements where you need money not influence. Similarly for politicians, they'd stay in Rome until they're at the top of their career, then use their influence in towns that need some smooth talking.
----I'm only guessing though, as the merchant or senator paths don't have influence/management coded in (but the diagrams we have show they would have these)

-------------

There's a kind of tradeoff between "time for coding" and "coder experience" in that someone who learns while doing it will get the job done, but may take a while. If Squid or someone else can answer my questions, I can probably get some parts working, since he has coded most of it.

Now the military career, he has not made any reference to them in the code thus far

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

So it would be very hard >__> Anyone doing it would have to code from scratch, so it would take them a while, regardless.

I kind of can take cues from the RS1.6 code - it seems a brave general kills people (obviously) but should be fighting, not killing routers, thus there is a check for hitpoints lost. Similarly, if you win a clear victory, the general gets something, but heroic victories take a bit more.

EDIT: Hmm, interesting. When you have a faction leader with "dictator for life", everyone but that person gets "housecaesar". Whoever becomes faction leader becomes Caesar. After that, everyone gets the "housecaesar" trait from the factionleader's "caesar" trait, and Rome turns into the dictatorship etc.

**dvk901** · October 29, 2009, 11:40 AM

Calvin's (Andy's) funeral is going to be tomorrow:

hello again dvk. thank yo fro getting back to me. i hope you dont mind i printed off your mesage so that andys parents and fiance and others coudl read it. i am glad to have met in some sense others who loved my brther. i have spoken to another person called empress meg and told her this also. the funeral is tomorow and while it will be private we are tihnking of asking people here if they would like to emal me messages to andy that i would print off and would be buried with him. if you and your team would like to my email is craiggaveda@gmail.com. also andys fiance wants to log into his account and look around the site becaus she really never knew what he did on here and who he spok to and was frinds with. do yo know how she can without people seeing her online? she doesnt want poeple getting confused when they see his name. that is why i made this acount but i am at a loss with computers and the intrenet. thanks for your reply.

craig

For anyone interested, the e-mail address is there, and all our messages will go with our friend.

craiggaveda@gmail.com

**dvk901** · October 29, 2009, 12:26 PM

You are most correct in that.

**Theoroshia** · October 29, 2009, 01:33 PM

I honestly have no idea what to say to his family or fiance. I knew him barely a month, and I talked to him twice (questions about traits for M2TW). He was a great guy, and that's that. In the end, isn't that really all that matters?

**dvk901** · October 29, 2009, 02:41 PM

That's cool. Sure might be helpful.

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