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  1. #1

    Default 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    First, (Started at October the 28th)


    The first one, as accurately predicted was the Greco-Italian war.
    The wikipedia article is fine, so I needn't post anything from there. I will bestow honor to those fighting in that war, as it was their sacrifice that allows me to sit here typing those lines. I could go on about Winston Churchil's "Heroes fight like Greeks" and it was very gracious of him and others to say those kind words.

    This honor belongs to our ancestors, however, not us. We will celebrate their victory and be proud of them but we have our own battles ahead of us, hopefully none of which will include actual weapons. Life has a way of always being fought but never beaten even without a shot being fired.

    What I would like to make sure is known is a small event that took place in the first days of the war. Kato Rabenia is the village of my grandmother, who still survives today. Her village was the last to be occupied by the Italians during the assault. Then Greek forces counterattacked driving the Italians into Albania. It has to be noted that Italians treated the conquered populace with respect and dignity. During the fight, a number of people sought refuge in a cave. Italians, after locating them, instead of just throwing a couple of grenades and calling it problem solved, they sent forth a volunteer with white flag in one hand and a bible in the other. He told them that they would not be harmed and indeed they were not.

    People have always been saying that the Italians didn't fight hard enough, or that they were a burden for the Germans to carry throughout the war. What is true, however, according to both the experiences of those who lived through those events as well as individual historians opinion is that the Italians wanted the victory and fought bloody hard for it. They woudln't have had so many casualties if they weren't. Public consumption and state propaganda turned history aside, Italians fought. Terrain certainly didn't help them and the amazing prowess of the Greeks of yore earned victories. Besides, one should only read the day by day account of the campaign. I had the priviledge to be reading about it, some years earlier, at a friends' house, from the actual archives of the Greek army. Italian assaults were both frequent and heavy.

    Especially their last one.
    The Italians, on the other hand, wishing to achieve a success in the Albanian front before the impending German intervention, gathered their forces to launch a new offensive, codenamed "Primavera" (Spring). They assembled 17 divisions opposite the Greeks' 13, and, under Mussolini's personal supervision, launched a determined attack against the Klisura Pass. The assault lasted from 9 March to 20 March, but failed to dislocate the Greeks and obtained only small conquests like Himare, the area of Mali Harza and mount Trebescini near Berat.
    We Greeks could only manage one determined enemy assaulting us. Pretty soon there were also Nazi Germans and Bulgarians.
    They only needed 24 days to conquer all of mainland Greece.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Second, (Finished at October the 28th)


    It is indeed the Slovakian uprising and this is indeed one of the 3 armored trains, which would be sent over via railroad wherever needed to boost firepower. Its final phase from 18-28 October saw 48.000 Nazi troops (mostly SS) fight against 30.000 Slovaks. Even as many tried to claim responsibility for that action, I guess it is fair to say that the honor is joint. The rebellion was decided in London, by all the Slovakian parties and the country was considered as one of those to be conquered later on by the Red Army.

    For more on that link applied. (and I will probably add some more tomorrow).

    Thank you to all who answered.
    I took the time to write about this for two reasons.
    1-It is good to remember others who fought and died that we might be here.
    2-Because people might not have heard of either the battle of Greece or the rebellion of Slovakia. That would be tough, among all the other battles which were waged in WW2. Both those countries are small, insignificant for some, fought against all odds and ultimately were beaten. Or were they?

    In the case of Slovakia's rebellion, the rebels were the bravest Slovaks. Their revolt help cleanse Slovakias' name for generations to come, as some would undoubtedly suggest that Slovakia was a hitler-made state. Nothing could be further from the truth and that was shown by the brave sons of Slovakia who took arms and sacrificed everything in an effort to throw out the most evil regime that has existed on this Earth. Fighting against bigger numbers of enemies, most of them SatanSpawn, without proper ammo, guns or being able to resupply, they hanged on as best they could. Unfortunately, they were defeated. It took the end of cold war and the dismantlement of the Iron curtain to finally see the rebellion as it was. A genuine people revolt against the army which would destroy them (Slovaks were slavs, therefore subhuman according to hitler) or enslave them. This victory of the few against the many belongs to the people of Slovakia and the determination of them not to yield to their slaver. Let's keep it that way. Let no one try to benefit from their holy struggle. It was a joint effort in which EVERYONE helped. US, USSR, UK, everyone who could. One brief moment when the Allies finally tried to liberate the oppressed. After that, everything went political (again), with the Allies splintering into East Vs West and the Rebellion being either forgotten, or worse "politicized" and "polarized". That is a gross insult to the people who fought and died for this Rebellion. The honor and praise is theirs, they earned it with their lives. Let's all make sure they get it.

    Unfortunately, in both Greece and Slovakia, the price of defending freedom was not only paid by the Christian Greeks and Slovaks. It was also paid in full by the Jewish Greeks and Slovaks. In Slovakia, whose government successfully stalled extraditions up until the quesling of the rebellion, saw the Jews loaded up into trains and towards the death camps. In Greece, it was the same thing. The Greek Jews paid dearly along with the Greek Christians the resistance against the Nazis, and the struggle against them.

    Let's spare a moment for those and everyone else who fought and died killing the evil beast dead, once and for all time.
    Ours is to see that their struggle and valiant death wasn't for naught.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Care to make a guess?
    (I will edit this post later today with a lot more on both, including links and more pics)

    Until then feel free to speculate.
    Last edited by Keravnos; October 29, 2009 at 05:10 AM. Reason: updated to include the answers to those questions
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  2. #2

    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    I'm guessing it has someting to do with the Turks giving Greece a good old ass whooping in 1922?

    Or Italians embarrassing themselves in WW2?
    Last edited by Dodge; October 28, 2009 at 04:00 AM.
    falnk with cavlary. stay a way from muder hoels.

  3. #3
    HIC SVNT LEONES's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    Greco-Italian War.

  4. #4
    Ephialtes's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    From wiki:
    1922March on Rome: Italian fascists led by Benito Mussolini march on Rome and take over the Italian government.
    World War II: Greece rejects Italy's ultimatum. Italy invades Greece through Albania, marking Greece's entry into World War II.





  5. #5

    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    The first one was easy.

    What's the second then?

    A minor tip. It was a glorious rebellion against an evil regime which was put down by it at October the 28th.
    3 trains were converted into what is shown in the pic to fight against those evil oppressors.

    Evil oppressors were those...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    They are marching pretty near to where this rebellion took place.
    Last edited by Keravnos; October 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM.
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  6. #6
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    Huh, only uprising that comes to my mind is Warsaw uprising but it seems that it was finished in september not the october.
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  7. #7
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    you should become propaganda minister Keravnos. btw the hint doesnt help much. germany is the evil oppressor by default

  8. #8

    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post
    you should become propaganda minister Keravnos. btw the hint doesnt help much. germany is the evil oppressor by default
    These Nazi marched in the former capital of a unified state, whose allies, abandoned it.
    Evil oppressors is what the people of said country called them.
    Then the Nazis splintered the country in two parts, keeping the one whose capital you see in the pic, allowing the other to go free which, in turn, rebelled when it had the chance.

    As that rebellion held, the Nazis brought these exemplary Germans (according to Hitler) were sent to aid quell the rebels, fresh out of Warsaw ghetto where they had been fighting against unarmed opponents (Jewish unarmed men, women and children).
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  9. #9
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    Maybe it's the rebellion of the sailors of the Kriegsmarine in 1918?
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  10. #10
    Orko's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    the first one(was it answered?) is benito's march on Rome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
    Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

  11. #11
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    I think it's the beginning of the Italian-Greece war.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    I was watching a lot time ago a documentary of Italian Tv on Mussolini and WW2

    it was Impressive to avoid the Greek-Italian war.

  13. #13
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    The second one is Slovak National Uprising which ended at October 28th; the picture is Armored train Hurban used during the uprising.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
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  14. #14
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    Bravo hellheaven
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  15. #15

    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    1918 – World War I: Czechoslovakia is granted independence from Austria-Hungary marking the beginning of independent Czechoslovak state, after 300 years.
    1885 – First porcelain toilet was built

  16. #16

    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    In my first post I wrote about how Italians respected Greeks at first. It would be ill appropriate of me not to as this event happened and as such had to be mentioned. Later on, however, the Italians and their Fascist leadership did commit heinous atrocities towards the Greek population.

    Which is why, even as we remember even the worse kind of punishment that can be brought about by total war such as WW2 was, that the few small candles of light be shown among the enveloping darkness.

    Mussolini, Leader under Italian Fascism betrayed its troops in the front as well. He sent the 8th Italian army to fight in the Soviet front, ill equipped and unprepared (much as all Italy was at the time).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian..._Eastern_Front
    Since the beginning of the Italian campaign in Russia, about 30,000 Italians had been killed and another 54,000 would die in captivity. By the end of February 1943, the rout of the ARMIR was complete. Mussolini then withdrew what remained of his 8th Army from Russian soil. The Italian forces in Russia had been reduced to less than 150,000 men, and 34,000 of these were wounded. The disaster in Russia was a fierce blow to the power and popularity of the dictator. Both sank as the gloomy news soon reached the public in Italy. Survivors blamed the Fascist political elite and the army generals. The survivors said they both had acted irresponsibly by sending a poorly prepared, ill-equipped, and inadequately armed military force to the Russian Front. The German commanders were accused of sacrificing the Italian divisions, whose withdrawal was supposedly delayed after the Soviet breakthrough, in order to rescue their own troops.[5]
    I think history has proven that Totalitarian regimes such as Fascism destroy their countries first from within and then allow them to be conquered from without. Hitler did the exact same thing in Germany.

    Which bring us to today. For all the flak that EU has been receiving, along with NATO war in Europe has been rendered inconceivable. It is true that we need to guard against Terrorism, but all our daily problems and worries, which can consume all the time we have in order to make ends meet, pale in comparison to a bullet in the head, which a war could easily bring about.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    Ah I had long-forgotten about the Slovakian uprising, the main reason it had interested me back in the day being those armored trains.

    Thinking about the day today and the Italian invasion, I have come to at least the self-realization that despite us fighting heroically against the Italians and later Germans and Bulgar oppressors, I would have much preferred if Greece didn't have to prove its mettle in that conflict - WWII was utterly destructive upon Greece, and more importantly upon Greeks themselves. Buildings and infrastructure could be rebuilt, but the conflicts which the war brought to Greece which endured following the war were as destructive, if not more so, than the war itself. Not to mention the loss of the ancient Jewish communities in Greece, which formed a distinct element of Greek life for many hundreds of years but will likely never take such a hold there again.

    Sorry, went off there a bit.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 2 events which happened October the 28th.

    No need to apologize, mate, this echoes my sentiments exactly.
    Especially as it hits close to home.



    A woman weeps during the deportation of the Jews of Ioannina on March 25, 1944. The deportation was enforced by the German army. Almost all of the people deported were murdered on or shortly after April 11, 1944, when the train carrying them reached Auschwitz-Berkinau.[1][2]
    Jews were a vibrant part of the population of my hometown, Ioannina. They were "Yianiotes" exactly like the rest of us. Our friends, our neighbors. Many of them were among the best friends of my late maternal grandfather. They were here, forever, since even before Ioannina existed. (Ioannina was founded by Justinian in the 550's, IIRC). The first Jews here were brought after the destruction of the second temple as the ship carrying them to Rome ran aground and were transported here in Ioannina as slaves to work on a hunting lodge which probably existed here at the time.

    There used to be Jews here in Ioannina, about 4000 in the peak of the Jewish community, everyday people going about their lives like everyone else. The vast majority were small shop owners, tanners, they would even haul cargo around on their backs to make a living, (uber-rich overlords that they were). All that is left right now are some survivors and their descendants, a synagogue, a monument to their sacrifice and a debt to us the living to NEVER FORGET how they came to disappear from among us.
    Last edited by Keravnos; October 29, 2009 at 02:03 AM.
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