Books for RTW players

[Parzival2211]

I am not sure whether this is the right place for this thread. Anyways, I thought it would be interesting to share info about books RTW fans read about game-related topics. I'll make the start:

A nice one I found is: Warfare in the Classical World by John Warry

It covers the Greek and Roman period and offers a lot of info on the wars and armies (equipment, formations, battle strategies).

[G-Megas-Doux]

De principatibus ad magnificum Laurentium Medicem

Nicolai Maclavelli

(Of Principalities, To the Magnificent Lorenzo de' Medici by Niccolo Machiavelli) I read the translation by Peter Bondanellia

Sun Tzu, The art of war, translated by Samuel B Griffith.

Books on chess are also good as are philosophy books and martial arts books that show conceptual beginings.

[Lucius Gellius Publicola]

There is quite a number of books on Roman emnpire and its armies from Osprey and they have some nice illustraitons. There are even 2 or 3 titles on Hadrian's wall. i am sure the developers from CA and the mods used the Osprey stuff for their units.

[G-Megas-Doux]

There is quite a number of books on Roman emnpire and its armies from Osprey and they have some nice illustraitons. There are even 2 or 3 titles on Hadrian's wall. i am sure the developers from CA and the mods used the Osprey stuff for their units.

There are a huge amount of Oxford classical books to read reguarding Rome that are widely available. The best known Book on Rome was the Decline and fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon writted in the 18th century. It begins briefly with the Principate of Augustus and then moves to the reign of Marcus Aurellius and covers many aspects of Roman History until the fall of Constantinople to the Turks.

[Lucius Gellius Publicola]

What do you think of "Fall of Constantinople 1453" by Steven Runciman?

[ray243]

There are a huge amount of Oxford classical books to read reguarding Rome that are widely available. The best known Book on Rome was the Decline and fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon writted in the 18th century. It begins briefly with the Principate of Augustus and then moves to the reign of Marcus Aurellius and covers many aspects of Roman History until the fall of Constantinople to the Turks.

*Groan.* I don't think that Gibbon is a good starting point for beginners, and considering that many of his views has been outdated for more than 2 century. If you think you can read through Gibbion's work, then maybe you should be able to read other lengthly works as well.

Some Lengthy books:

If you want to read up on the Late Empire, try reading books written by AHM Jones ( one of the most respectable historians in regards to the late Roman History).

In regards to how the late Roman army fought like, try reading Hugh Elton's Warfare in Roman Europe AD 350-425.

On the Roman army in the Principate era, try reading Yann Le Bohec's The imperial Roman Army.

In regards to the Fall of Rome, Peter Heather's work are pretty decent.


Other than that, the Cambridge's ancient History Vol. 7-13 are excellent as well.

I would generally try and avoid reading primary sources given the fact that I have not much training in regards to how to interpret sources, and have not much clue about how reliable those sources are. I would also avoid Osprey, as many Historians disliked Osprey for their Historical inaccuracy.

[Warhammster]

I got 2 favorites:

• Historia, by Herodotus
• Germania, by Tacitus

[G-Megas-Doux]

*Groan.* I don't think that Gibbon is a good starting point for beginners, and considering that many of his views has been outdated for more than 2 century. If you think you can read through Gibbion's work, then maybe you should be able to read other lengthly works as well.

Some Lengthy books:

If you want to read up on the Late Empire, try reading books written by AHM Jones ( one of the most respectable historians in regards to the late Roman History).

In regards to how the late Roman army fought like, try reading Hugh Elton's Warfare in Roman Europe AD 350-425.

On the Roman army in the Principate era, try reading Yann Le Bohec's The imperial Roman Army.

In regards to the Fall of Rome, Peter Heather's work are pretty decent.


Other than that, the Cambridge's ancient History Vol. 7-13 are excellent as well.

I would generally try and avoid reading primary sources given the fact that I have not much training in regards to how to interpret sources, and have not much clue about how reliable those sources are. I would also avoid Osprey, as many Historians disliked Osprey for their Historical inaccuracy.

Irritatingly I could only get the abridged student version that was published at the time so I missed a lot of the good chapters. I was disappointed but it is well written.

LOL. I have a book called The Complete Roman Army by Adrian Goldsworthy published by Thames&Hudson, it is ok and informative to those who don’t know about Rome.

A point of topic, just because a view is out of date does not mean it is incorrect, later views may bring back earlier assumptions, it is called revision.

Primary sources wise I also have Seutonius, The Twelve Caesers a very fun book.

[ThePianist]

De principatibus ad magnificum Laurentium Medicem

Nicolai Maclavelli

(Of Principalities, To the Magnificent Lorenzo de' Medici by Niccolo Machiavelli) I read the translation by Peter Bondanellia

Sun Tzu, The art of war, translated by Samuel B Griffith.

Books on chess are also good as are philosophy books and martial arts books that show conceptual beginings.

Do not read books by Machiavelli, he is a demonic person.
His book "the prince" contains so much evil and wickedness, "the prince" can only be referring to Satan.

[ThePianist]

I recommend reading "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", by Edward Gibbon.
It's the most complete history of the Roman Empire, from Caesar Augustus in 27 BC until the fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD.

It was written around the Founding of America.
It is still unsurpassed. The best history of the Roman Empire ever written.

[ray243]

I recommend reading "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", by Edward Gibbon.
It's the most complete history of the Roman Empire, from Caesar Augustus in 27 BC until the fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD.

It was written around the Founding of America.
It is still unsurpassed. The best history of the Roman Empire ever written.

Unsurpassed? Did you even bother to read books by other authors besides Gibbon? What about the Cambridge Ancient History series of books?

Rome and her enemies Jane Penrose, this is an Osprey Special edition encompassing Rome from her founding to the decline and fall of the western Empire. As expected from an Osprey title it is very well researched and is full of amazing artwork covering not only tRoman forces but that of her numerous enemies.

From what I understand, most Historians reject the Osprey books due to their historical accuracy.

[Rilsaur]

Another "lighter" read I think many would enjoy is Battle: A Visual Journey Through 5000 Years of Combat

[ssmarine]

From what I understand, most Historians reject the Osprey books due to their historical accuracy.

Ive actually noticed errors in Osprey books myself. I remember reading an Osprey book about the Western Uniforms of the 18th and 19th centuries and how horribly inaccuarate their pictures of the early US uniforms were. Then I heard Jack Lusted say that they were using Osprey books as their guide for uniforms on ETW which I found humorous.

[G-Megas-Doux]

Do not read books by Machiavelli, he is a demonic person.
His book "the prince" contains so much evil and wickedness, "the prince" can only be referring to Satan.

Have you read this book I would happily discuss its merits and flaws with you in another forum or are you just using this to provoke a reaction. Yes it was on the Papal list of banned books however Machiavelli was actually patronised by Pope Leo X it was only years after his death that his works were placed on the list and only then because it was to handy a manual for competition.

How dare an upper middle class statesman presume to analyse the merits of the Papacy in specific the reigns of Pope Alexander VI and Pope Julius II.

There is nothing evil in that book that cannot be found in everyday life or in a newspaper. It should be at the reader’s discretion as to what they find evil.

The title actually means on principalities which is the topic of discussion. It talks about what types of Principalities there are and what types of Princes there are. Following this it then discusses their methods of rule and whether to employ such methods. Machiavelli only mentions the evil methods because they are part of the subject matter and a way to be objectively inclusive he does not actually praise the evil methods. Machiavelli was no worse a person than any Prince who lived contemporaries to him and certainly there were many worse than him.

I would recommend the book to anyone who wishes to observe the thinking’s of any monarch in an age where power in the form of one person could rule an empire or kingdom.

[G-Megas-Doux]

There are a few about this but I have not read this author's work.

[Parzival2211]

I read the Crusades by Steven Runciman - very detailed discription, giving lots of names and facts, but not analysing so much, if I remember correctly. Was a long time ago that I read it.

I read some more books about Rome, but as they are not in English, I shouldn't mention them here, I suppose. But Warfare in the Classical World by John Warry is really perfect for RTW gamers.

I haven't read Osprey, but what you mention, Lucius, sounds very interesting.

Sun Tzu's Art of War is a classic, and obviously his concepts have been implemented into RTW by CA - at least some of them. G-Megas-Doux: Sounds like you are a fan of fundamental research. Great for the background, right now, I am more interested in something about battle tactics applied by ancient generals. Has anyone come across something like that?

[Rilsaur]

Give Me Back My Legions: A Novel Of Ancient Rome by Harry Turtledove

[G-Megas-Doux]

The title is a quote from Seutonius's Twelve Ceasers. It is attributed to what Augustus said after the disaster in the Teutenberg Forest when three Legions commanded by Varus were destroyed and the eagles captured.

[Rilsaur]

The title is a quote from Seutonius's Twelve Ceasers. It is attributed to what Augustus said after the disaster in the Teutenberg Forest when three Legions commanded by Varus were destroyed and the eagles captured.

Which is what the book is about, as you could probably tell.

[Julius Barca the Great]

I like the "Misplaced Legion" and series by Turledove and the "Emperor" Series by Iggulden. Both are during Gaius Julius Caesar's lifetime, though one is pure fiction whereas "Emperor" is much more historical. Speaking of Iggulden, another similar series is "Genghis." Obvious deals with the Khan himself, and is very interesting.