Arquebusier/Musketeer effective use?

[Ellsid]

How do you make use of Musketeers and Arquebusiers effectively? My Argon campaign my Basque archers kill more and defend better than my firearm units. 250 kills to 100 kills...

[Double A]

Use them like crossbowmen shock infantry. Flank and fire.

[JiangZiya]

Rofl jk. Place them at the front of your army with no obstacles between yourself in the enemy. As the enemy charges, send them to your flanks at a safe distance and slowly close in on the sides of the enemy. The good thing about Musketmen is they generally are capable in HtH combat if they get rushed.

Think of them as extra-dangerous skirmishers from RTW.

[Anaatti]

Noob-Box

[ruthless knight]

Since they they have AP they are far more useful than archers and they are better in combat too.

[Tyrenia]

The only time I like firearm units is when the are mounted. So basically that's Camel Gunners, Reiters and Mounted Cossacks. Other than that, I find that they aren't nearly as effective as a decent crossbowman, because they can't fire over an infantary line, and in front, they die too easily.

[Vaz]

Janissary Musketeers in Siege Defence is amazing. Have an equal number of Archers and Musketeers. Place Archers in a semi-circle around the gate that opponents will be coming through and deploy stakes, and then lift them onto the walls to fire against attackers.

Place your Janissary Infantry a way away from them, so that you can consistently fire on them when they come through. Janissary Halberds and Hasashim also complete the defence of the city. I managed to hold off 5 full stacks in 2 turns in Antioch a few days ago with that force, and none of them were higher than 2 or 3 bronze.

[talknight2]

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/38042?page=3

In here is my guide to a formation I find fairly useful for Pike&Shot armies. Works very well for me.
Scroll to the middle of the page for the screenshots.

[Double A]

Also Hand Gunners should be treated like Hastati. They soften up the enemy with a volley or two, and then they can engage with decent hand to hand damage and good armor.

Mounted gunners are like crossbow cavalry with lightsaber bolts. They freak the crap out of enemy forces and they kill a lot of them. They can outrun most units too, so you can pretty much dominate heavy cavalry if they try to chase them down.

[Callawyn]

Take advantage of their long range, and AI stupidity, by setting up your forces as far back as possible. The AI almost always comes to you.

Also, I prefer to line up only 2 ranks deep for gunpowder units, seems to be the most efficient way to get the most shots / time from their fire by rank animations. Of course, if you've got pikes as well, the length of the pike formation will determine the length of your musketeer line and hence its depth.

[Ellsid]

So Musketeers/Arquebusiers have high stats but out in the open field they are dead meat. There slow rate of fire and lack of inflicting damage just does not make them worth there use. At least handgunners can defend themselves.

[JiangZiya]

not really. in RR/RC musketeers are considered Superior and Arquebusiers are considered Above average. They can generally contend with any Militia type as long as its not an elite unit.
as i said before, and a few people restated...

"As the enemy charges, send them to your flanks at a safe distance and slowly close in on the sides of the enemy. The good thing about Musketmen is they generally are capable in HtH combat if they get rushed."

That's really the best thing you can do, since it will also cause the enemy to tighten their formation and converge to the center to avoid casualties (if you aren't using a TERRIBLE AI.)
If you've seen any good movie with decent warfare scenes, troops generally avoid being on the flanks for this reason.

[Knight of Heaven]

Arcabusiers and musketeers, aswell handgunners rock if you know how to use then, i just put then in front and between my pikemens, and his pikes, such as aventuros, pike militias and tercios etc
Just like that

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

when i put my pikemens in defensive formation my gunners will be protected with the pikes, and arcabusiers, along with the pikemens, are very good at melee, some in the melee will keep firing and rout enemies. its a wonderfull tactic, they will keep the enemies in place, so you can flank the rest of enemy army with swift cavalry and infantry.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I win against a timurid stack fairly easy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dont need to move arround musketeers, and wasting time in micro maneging.

Take advantage of their long range, and AI stupidity, by setting up your forces as far back as possible. The AI almost always comes to you.

Also, I prefer to line up only 2 ranks deep for gunpowder units, seems to be the most efficient way to get the most shots / time from their fire by rank animations. Of course, if you've got pikes as well, the length of the pike formation will determine the length of your musketeer line and hence its depth.

exactly

Here you have an example how they did it. its a spanish movie with Virgo Mortisen, "El capitan alatriste"

[meese]

You'll be surprised by how well they do. The late musketeers and Janisarry musketeers are devastating against heavily armoured troops (as is their purpose). It may be true that against lightly armoured troops they're not quite as effective as archers, but that's why it's best to field a variety. Trust me, when five units of longbowmen fail to kill even a few gothic-plated lancers, you'll be wishing you had armour piercing musketeers who, from memory have something like 22 missile attack, compared with 5.

[Petar]

Well, the janissary musketeers when defending or assaulting a wall just slaughter all my dismounted knights and men at arms in melee, guess something's wrong with that unit, won't even comment their ranged attack.

Anyway, I usually use my gunpowder infantry at the flanks, supported by cavalry, so when my main line infantry engages in melee the musketeers/hand gunners close the front from both sides. If the enemy cavalry tries to charge them I counter-attack with my cavalry or some support infantry. So it basically goes like this:

1. ==_________== ("==" is gunpowder infantry, "___" is regular infantry")
2. \\ _________ //
3. || _________ ||

This basically creates crossfire without suffering any friendly fire.

[SirDestroyer]

Only problem I have with musketeers is that the mod decreased their range.

EDIT: I've tested pike and shot and the gunners don't kill much. What's also weird is that not all musketeers perform equally and that arquebusiers kill more man than them.

[Knight of Heaven]

Only problem I have with musketeers is that the mod decreased their range.

EDIT: I've tested pike and shot and the gunners don't kill much. What's also weird is that not all musketeers perform equally and that arquebusiers kill more man than them.

Yes the gunners main role isnt kill at distance, i belive they have good melee stats, for a reason, together with the pike units they can hold, and give enemies their run from the money. And the ocasional fire, and smoke in the mellee put them to rout fairly easy. i remenber once in vanilla when i had 3 pike militias with 3 hand gunners on then forming a a square of death at a gate defending jerusalem against the mongols. I remember a mongol general entering in this square, and been killed by a shot of a hand gun, it was amazing becouse i saw it happen very closely, in video of the general falling, one were able to see him get shot. i must say on open field they arent as efective as arcabusiers, or musketeers, becouse of the range, but in mellee,and in close range they are very worthy. In citie stogether with pikes they are very good, defending streets and gates.

[SirDestroyer]

Yes the gunners main role isnt kill at distance, i belive they have good melee stats, for a reason, together with the pike units they can hold, and give enemies their run from the money. And the ocasional fire, and smoke in the mellee put them to rout fairly easy. i remenber once in vanilla when i had 3 pike militias with 3 hand gunners on then forming a a square of death at a gate defending jerusalem against the mongols. I remember a mongol general entering in this square, and been killed by a shot of a hand gun, it was amazing becouse i saw it happen very closely, in video of the general falling, one were able to see him get shot. i must say on open field they arent as efective as arcabusiers, or musketeers, becouse of the range, but in mellee,and in close range they are very worthy. In citie stogether with pikes they are very good, defending streets and gates.

I was talking about all the types of gunners. (musketeers, arquebusiers, hand gunners)

As others have said, the main benefits of guns over archers are the armour piercing and morale breaking factors. Even flame arrows don't seem to deplete morale as fast as guns. I've had an amusing match up once with late musketeers against retinue longbowmen and, granted, their general had died, but those longbowmen lost because of broken morale.

Are you sure your tests are accurate? I'm pretty sure late musketeers would kill a lot more than arquebusiers seeing as they were developments over the latter...not to mention arquebusiers have a lot less range and stopping power, I think.

I'm playing 6.1 with no submods.

[Ellsid]

Well historically I know how they were used but I guess I will try the meshing of gunners along the edge of the pikemen as I do with my rebaults. I played with the Turks and the Janissary Musketeers were good and I had no problems but with Argon not so.... I think the Argon units missile stats are Muskets 13 and Arquebuiers 11. I'm now at war with France so I'll try all the techniques.

[meese]

As others have said, the main benefits of guns over archers are the armour piercing and morale breaking factors. Even flame arrows don't seem to deplete morale as fast as guns. I've had an amusing match up once with late musketeers against retinue longbowmen and, granted, their general had died, but those longbowmen lost because of broken morale.

Are you sure your tests are accurate? I'm pretty sure late musketeers would kill a lot more than arquebusiers seeing as they were developments over the latter...not to mention arquebusiers have a lot less range and stopping power, I think.