Tibetan glaciers melting? How can we ever hope to cope with that?

[Keravnos]

Tibetan glaciers are melting. Some predict that they will be gone by 2100, others by 2050, some by even 2035.

Global warming is melting glaciers in China's Tibetan region at a rate of 7.0 percent annually, triggering drought, desertification and sandstorms in other regions, state press reported.

About 47 percent of China's glaciers are on the Qinghai-Tibet plateau in the Himalayas, where the Yangtze, Yellow, Brahmaputra, Mekong and Salween rivers all originate.

The fast rate of glacier melt has meant more water run-off from the plateau which exacerbates soil erosion and leads to desertification, it said.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...ent_582103.htm

A three-year study, to be used by the China Geological Survey Institute, shows that glaciers in the Yangtze source area, central to the Qinghai-Tibet plateau in south-western China, have receded 196 square kilometres over the past 40 years.
Glaciers at the headwaters of the Yangtze, China's longest river, now cover 1,051 square kilometres compared to 1,247 square kilometres in 1971, a loss of nearly a billion cubic metres of water, while the tongue of the Yuzhu glacier, the highest in the Kunlun Mountains fell by 1,500 metres over the same period.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0220185537.htm

This is one of the major global problems that need to be dealt with. I fear that we have been taking our supply of water for granted for far too long. This one thing can be detrimental to all India, China and Indochina's water supply.

The most unfortunate part of this whole situation isn't that it MIGHT happen, but rather WHEN will it.

It has been suggested that this might actually mean substantially less water for all countries that those rivers flow to, increase flooding of those rivers (as the glaciers until now regulated water flow, ensuring that there would be water in the summer too, as they would melt) and even the danger of some of those rivers having little to no water on the summers when the Tibetan plateau glaciers melt.

“With climate change, all these rivers will have greatly reduced flows,” says Carter Brandon, director of the World Bank’s China environment programme in Beijing. “There will also be much more seasonal variation – when flow is more dependent on rainfall, as opposed to the steady inflow of snowmelt from glaciers.”
http://southasia.oneworld.net/opinio...-into-deserts/

Therefore I would like to hear your ideas, if you have some, as to how best cope with this situation.
- Massive seaside desalinization plants and large pipelines to bring water inland? That would be too costly and some countries couldn't even fathom taking on such an endeavor.
- Population movement from the areas worst affected to the areas least in danger? Still, this is the major rivers of India, Indochina and China we are talking about. The places people have been moving TO for millenia not from.

I don't really claim to have any other knowledge about this than what I have read on the links I will provide next, but I would like you to post some solutions to what you would consider the best reaction to such an event. Remember -7% yearly means that it will run out sometime.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193970,00.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...ay-424651.html

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibe...009162947.html

http://southasia.oneworld.net/opinio...-into-deserts/

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/tibetan-g.../43277-11.html

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/clim...acier91800.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0220185537.htm







I think we should all be spending some time every now and then thinking about the future and the promises it holds as well as the dangers inherent therein. The following presentation is a good synopsis of what is at stake.


I would also like to encourage you to visit www.TED.com as there are literally tons of speaches about everything that involves science and art. A lot of scientists there give dire warnings about the future, most of which stem, like this one, from climate change and our apparent inability to stop it. Still we must try, mustn't we?

[Hunter Makoy]

It has been suggested that this might actually mean substantially less water for all countries that those rivers flow to, increase flooding of those rivers (as the glaciers until now regulated water flow, ensuring that there would be water in the summer too, as they would melt) and even the danger of some of those rivers having little to no water on the summers when the Tibetan plateau glaciers melt.

So the glaciers melting will cause the rivers to be dry and flood?

[Keravnos]

Dry (or almost dry) in the summer and flash flooding in the winter. The glaciers of Tibet acts as a repository and a regulator of sorts for the water flowing out of Tibet. Melting glaciers in the Summer keep the major rivers of India, Indochina and China running.

I do hope that we never come to that. If you watched the video, it suggests that 45% of aerial pollution is caused by traffic congestion in the US alone. What if we all were driving hybrids, which, albeit running on gas would conserve valuable fuel for when the car would actually be running and use batteries for stop and go traffic/congestion? I bet that this 45% would go a lot lower.

[Babur]

Dry (or almost dry) in the summer and flash flooding in the winter. The glaciers of Tibet acts as a repository and a regulator of sorts for the water flowing out of Tibet. Melting glaciers in the Summer keep the major rivers of India, Indochina and China running.

I do hope that we never come to that. If you looked at the video, it suggests that 45% of aerial pollution is caused by traffic congestion in the US alone. What if we all were driving hybrids, which, albeit running on gas would conserve valuable fuel for when the car would actually be running and use batteries for stop and go traffic/congestion? I bet that this 45% would go a lot lower.

It would be sad to see the Ganges disappear :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I took this pic in January.

[Keravnos]

I pray and hope with all my heart that this will never ever happen. Which is why it is imperative we act now. Support people who understand the problem, what is at stake and how fast the changes that are re-forming our world take place.

For example India, understanding the problem has opted to support Nuclear power as a way to have electrical power without any/minimal gas emissions. Hopefully solar power and wind power will follow, as India has many deserts which would make solar power plants exceedingly productive. Many Nations are already taking measures to combat this problem, but there is growing resistance also, by the people who don't believe this is happening or have too much vested interest to allow any change, not caring about the fact that by their actions they destroy our one and only world.

http://www.lyravlos.gr/player-en.asp...gia-triada.wma

This is one of my favorite prayers. From the papyrus of Oxyrynchus in Egypt (3rd c. A.D.), in ancient Greek alphabetic musical notation. It has to be one of the oldest Christian prayers/hymns that we can be sure as to how they were sung.

It is a prayer to the Holly Trinity (as we Christians view God) for the Earth to be fruitful and sustain its population.

[Babur]

I pray and hope with all my heart that this will never ever happen. Which is why it is imperative we act now. Support people who understand the problem, what is at stake and how fast the changes that are re-forming our world take place.

For example India, understanding the problem has opted to support Nuclear power as a way to have electrical power without any/minimal gas emissions. Hopefully solar power and wind power will follow, as India has many deserts which would make solar power plants exceedingly productive. Many Nations are already taking measures to combat this problem, but there is growing resistance also, by the people who don't believe this is happening or have too much vested interest to allow any change, not caring about the fact that by their actions they destroy our one and only world.

http://www.lyravlos.gr/player-en.asp...gia-triada.wma

This is one of my favorite prayers. From the papyrus of Oxyrynchus in Egypt (3rd c. A.D.), in ancient Greek alphabetic musical notation. It has to be one of the oldest Christian prayers/hymns that we can be sure as to how they were sung.

It is a prayer to the Holly Trinity (as we Christians view God) for the Earth to be fruitful and sustain its population.

well Diodorus recorded this from Megasthenes' Indica:

"India, again, possesses many rivers both large and navigable, which, having their sources in the mountains which stretch along the northern frontier, traverse the level country, and not a few of these, after uniting with each other, fall into the river called the Ganges. Now this river, which at its source is 30 stadia broad, flows from north to south, and empties its waters into the ocean forming the eastern boundary of the Gangaridai, a nation which possesses a vast force of the largest-sized elephants."

Megansthenes travelled to Pataliputra (Patna), which still exists today and is where my grandma's side of the family originated .

This year the monsoon rains were weaker than expected which is a bad sign if it becomes a trend.

yes the deserts of Rajasthan would be a good place to have solar plants.

[Plan C]

What if we all were driving hybrids, which, albeit running on gas would conserve valuable fuel for when the car would actually be running and use batteries for stop and go traffic/congestion? I bet that this 45% would go a lot lower.

My 2 cents - production of a hybrid car currently consumes much more in terms of resources and leaves a far greater carbon footprint than the production of an average executive saloon. In the current shape hybrids are certainly not the answer:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...57U02B20090831

[Hunter Makoy]

I do hope that we never come to that. If you watched the video, it suggests that 45% of aerial pollution is caused by traffic congestion in the US alone. What if we all were driving hybrids, which, albeit running on gas would conserve valuable fuel for when the car would actually be running and use batteries for stop and go traffic/congestion? I bet that this 45% would go a lot lower.

What about the 65% out there? What about the pollution of the actual region, which has a much more direct and immediate effect? This area is right next door to the most polluted countries on earth, focus on that before worrying about the minority thats caused by "traffic in the U.S."

[Keravnos]

Everyone must accept their responsibilities. Those who live close, as well as the rest of us living far. A monumental event such as this is bound to have repercussions for everyone on this planet.

[Hunter Makoy]

Everyone must accept their responsibilities. Those who live close, as well as the rest of us living far. A monumental event such as this is bound to have repercussions for everyone on this planet.

Absolutely, my point though is that in talking about solving the problem (and its not just you, its pretty much everyone on that side) all anyone ever seems to want to talk about is the U.S., what we have to do. All driving hybrids or what not. What about China's insane (and growing) addiction to coal. The coal burning is having a more direct and serious impact then whether I drive an SUV or a hybrid. (I actually don't drive anything, so I get to criticize everyone! )

Plus there's like 2 billion Chinese over there, I'm sure there's quite a few looking for work. Have 'em go wash the damn soot off the glaciers!

I do give you credit for actually coming up with something though. Most just want to cry and whine about how evil we are and we're killing the earth while also coming up with zero ideas of doing anything, and the ideas they do have have no data behind them on they're actual potential to even solve the problem:

Like hybrids. A lot of people want to talk up hybrids in this "just do it, it will help" kind of way. Completely ignoring the massive investment it is, or the incredibly long pay back period. Plus as Phier showed in his article about the soot, would point to a switch to hybrids having almost no effect at all.

My problem with people pushing the Climate Change agenda is that basically noone will actually take the time to stop freaking out to actually quantify the situation, the proposed solutions, and actually work the problem. When we are dealing with a global issue that requires a global solution we can't take a "throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" approach, yet its generally what they'd have us do. You don't have to look much further then ethanol to see that either.

[justicar5]

So the glaciers melting will cause the rivers to be dry and flood?

yes, flood in the monsson season as water wont be trapped on the glacier, then go dry in summer, previously glaciel melt water kept the rivers flowing in the dry summer months, without that the rain will come straight down the river (flash flood) then, when their is no rain, it will be a dry empty bed.

[Babur]

This is serious news,since the Tibetan glaciers feed the Ganges,Indus and the Brahmaputra rivers.They're vital for agriculture and the Ganges is of course sacred to many in India.

[Phier]

Funny, look what I found...

Clouds of soot melting glaciers in Himalayas and Tibetan plateau

October 5th, 2009 - 12:07 pm ICT by ANI -
London, October 5 (ANI): In a new research, scientists in India and China have determined that glaciers in the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau that feed the river systems of almost half the world’s people are melting faster because of the effects of clouds of soot from diesel fumes and wood fires.
According to a report in the Guardian, the results of the research, to be announced this month in Kashmir, show for the first time that clouds of soot - made up of tiny particles of “black carbon” emitted from old diesel engines and from cooking with wood, crop waste or cow dung - are “unequivocally having an impact on glacial melting” in the Himalayas.
Scientists said that, while the threat of carbon dioxide (CO2) to global warming has been accepted, soot from developing countries is a largely unappreciated cause of rising temperatures.
Once the black carbon lands on glaciers, it absorbs sunlight that would otherwise be reflected by the snow, leading to melting.
“This is a huge problem which we are ignoring,” said Professor Syed Hasnain of the Energy and Resources Institute (Teri) in Delhi.
“We are finding concentrations of black carbon in the Himalayas in what are supposed to be pristine, untouched environments,” he added.
The institute has set up two sensors in the Himalayas, one on the Kholai glacier that sits on the mountain range’s western flank in Kashmir and the other flowing through the eastern reaches in Sikkim.
Glaciers in this region feed most of the major rivers in Asia.
The short-term result of substantial melting is severe flooding downstream.
Hasnain said that India and China produce about a third of the world’s black carbon, and both countries have been slow to act.
“India is the worst. At least in China, the state has moved to measure the problem. In Delhi. no government agency has put any sensors on the ground. Teri is doing it by ourselves,” he said.
Decreasing black carbon emissions should be a relatively cheap way to significantly curb global warming.
Black carbon falls from the atmosphere after just a couple of weeks, and replacing primitive cooking stoves with modern versions that emit far less soot could quickly end the problem.
Controlling traffic in the Himalayan region should help ease the harm done by emissions from diesel engines. (ANI)

Not exactly 'classic' global warming theory, just classic physics.

Ah well off to the gym.

[Hannibal the destroy]

wait a minute Tibet ?, Flood ? 2012

[Erik]

Therefore I would like to hear your ideas, if you have some, as to how best cope with this situation.

I think the most straightforward solution is to construct (hydroelectric) dams.
But I don't know if the landscape is suitable.

[Monarchist]

Well, I'd better get baptised pretty quickly before we're all drowned by a new Flood. Who cares about the Earth? We should have our eyes fixed toward Heaven, for goodness' sake. Convert the poor peasants who will die by this presumed melting of the glaciers. Bah!

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Well, I'd better get baptised pretty quickly before we're all drowned by a new Flood. Who cares about the Earth? We should have our eyes fixed toward Heaven, for goodness' sake. Convert the poor peasants who will die by this presumed melting of the glaciers. Bah!

I want to make a facepalm image out of faces

[Arbitrary Crusader]

Monarchist[/B]
Well, I'd better get baptised pretty quickly before we're all drowned by a new Flood. Who cares about the Earth? We should have our eyes fixed toward Heaven, for goodness' sake. Convert the poor peasants who will die by this presumed melting of the glaciers. Bah!

[Arbitrary Crusader]

God.............sometime i wish i was born in the future (2 million A.D anyone?)or the past for that matter

[Denny Crane!]

Awoooogah Awoooogah.

Panic now!

Because when unilateral government action can't even act to save 1000000 people being massacred it will easily master the complexity of balancing economics and sustainability combined with reduced use of fossil fuels. Yes that is going to happen, no it is not naive, what the hell do you mean I don't know what I am talking about. How dare you.