Religious Unrest Caused by Pious General?

[Byg]

This is very odd to me.

My capital city has 55% religious unrest so i move my 8 piety emperor in and it goes up to 70%.

Other generals have similar effects. One 5 piety general adds 5% religious unrest to a different settlement with +64% overall religion, doubling what it was without a general.

Can anyone tell me why? What are the maths behind this?

[Theodotos I]

I've noticed this myself, but I have no idea. It's your capital, so it can't be a contrary religion issue.

[Byg]

Just to confuse things further I have another 4 piety general in Athens who has no effect on religious unrest, which is 40% with or without him.

I have another who also has no effect with only 1 piety, so other than piety what attribute could influence religious unrest?

[Taiji]

Seems like a lot of heresy, might have something to do with it...

[Byg]

Seems like a lot of heresy, might have something to do with it...

But how does the general influence heresy? Generals high piety + settlement heresy = religious unrest?

[Taiji]

That sounds like a nice system, faster conversion for greater unrest, but I've no idea. I'm not sure if DLV has something similar or not, and if it does I wouldn't know what causes it.

[Gigantus]

I have been having the suspicion, that piety in a general in M2TW does not have any effect on the settlements religious unrest. Whether it has some kind of conversion effect is not clear either. I have noticed that the only way to reduce religious unrest is to get a priest into the region and convert the heathens and erect religious buildings (which is the same principle).

[Byg]

So we are still none the wiser as to why a general causes religious unrest to rise.

I just started a new test campaign to see how a turn 0 france is affected. This gets even stranger as non of france's generals had any effect upon religious unrest.

[Taiji]

They had high piety and heretic population?

[Byg]

They had high piety and heretic population?

There were various piety levels and I just checked the heresy. It varies between 5 and 20 % on turn 0. So I suppose there is no heresy link either.

I checked other factions at turn 0. Whilst French generals have no effect on religious unrest, Teutonic, Byzantine and Hungarian generals do. I'm wondering if this is because the latter have different religion neighbours and regardless of any attributes of generals perhaps some religious unrest is triggered simply by a general's presence because of this.

[uanime5]

I've heard that pious generals cause unrest if they're put in a settlement with high levels of another religion. Do pious general cause less unrest if they're in a settlement with high levels of the same religion?

In RTW how did generals convert the population to another religion?

[Byg]

The piety really seems to have no connection that I can see.

[konny]

It could be caused by another attribute, for example Unrest or LocalPopularity. Check all traits of your generals if you find any similarities. When you have a suspect make a general without any traits in descr_start, check the religious unrest, and then give the same general a trait with an insane ammount of the attribute you think it might cause it in the next test.

[Hellenikon]

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, just wanted to add my findings to the discussion.

Apparently if you use the normal system of M2TW (that is piety and religion) then as you say a high piety general increase religious unrest. Piety is the former management of RTW, but changed to suit the M2TW game. That´s why for example the higher piety general is chosen to be the governor, because he do it best thanks to his high piety (old management).

Now, what i´ve also found is that it is possible to change this behaviour. I am not sure exactly how it is done (i´ve yet to find exactly which piece of code affects it) but if you want to see an example of it, launch the british isles kingdom campaign. There you have management instead of piety (it is just piety renamed management, religion renamed culture and priests removed). The "religious unrest" is called there "cultural unrest", so far is equal, but here is the big difference.

When you put a high management (piety) general in a settlement, the "cultural unrest" (religious unrest) decreases, instead of increase. If you want to test it, pick a settlement with various cultures in the british isles campaign, and compare the "cultural unrest" when a governor is inside and whe he is out, you should see the difference. You can also use the console with traits like give_this PublicFaith 4 to increase his management (piety) and see the effect better.

I´ve been looking throught the files to see if i could find which is the difference between this campaign and the normal M2TW but so far nothing i have removed has served to bring it back to the old system.

My first suspicion were these lines in descr_campaign_db.xml

      <alternative_religious_unrest bool="true"/>        <!-- alternative settlement religious unrest calculations -->
      <alt_rel_allied_modifier float="0.5"/>            <!-- allied religion cumulative total modifier -->
      <alt_rel_gov_modifier_base float="2.0"/>            <!-- governors piety religion base modifier -->
      <alt_rel_gov_coefficient float="-0.2"/>            <!-- governors piety religion coefficient -->

But i have tried removing then and launching the campaign (also doing other changes to test that file first is working) and it didn´t change anything. I am not sure what is exacty what changes the way the religious unrest works but i think it would be nice if it was unveiled, as it would be useful for many mods specially for those who want to replace piety with management or just remove the unrest caused by piety.

[Taiji]

<alternative_religious_unrest bool="true"/>

I'd try setting that to false, while wondering 'what is the alternative to what?'.

Removing lines from that file (just like campaign_ai_db, config_ai_battle, battle_config, etc., all .xmls) makes the game use hardcoded defaults, and with no error message. So the only use of removing lines is in finding out what the defaults are, which can be useful in order to assess the effectiveness of new code (by knowing what it looks like when we break the file).

[Hellenikon]

<alternative_religious_unrest bool="true"/>

I'd try setting that to false, while wondering 'what is the alternative to what?'.

Removing lines from that file (just like campaign_ai_db, config_ai_battle, battle_config, etc., all .xmls) makes the game use hardcoded defaults, and with no error message. So the only use of removing lines is in finding out what the defaults are, which can be useful in order to assess the effectiveness of new code (by knowing what it looks like when we break the file).

Thanks Taiji, i tried turning the boolean to false as you said, but still it showed no change. I fear my file_first isn´t working or i have done something wrong.

I first tested that the file_first command was ok by making a change in descr_strat (adding more free upkeep units to forts), but now i have realised that descr_strat changes do not need to unpack, and therefore, are not affected by file_first.

So what i did next is to go into the export_descr_unit and give the king of england Henry different stats, i gave him attack 50, but again in the game it showed the vanilla attack fo 14.

This makes me think that the way i set up the file_first is wrong. What i did was to create inside the m2tw/mod/british_isles folder, a .cfg file called "british_isles" and i put inside this lines:

[features]
editor = true
mod = mods/british_isles

[io]
file_first = true

I hope it is not a very obvious mistake, i am not sure what is causing it, i thought about the cache but i don´t really know how it works or if it would affect something like this. I´d really appreciate it if anyone could test it (changing the boolean to false as Taiji explained), but i think i should also add that in the games where piety do increase unrest, there is no line at all for alternative unrest. It all suggest that those lines were added when creating the britannia campaign.

And finally answering to what Taiji asked, my guess is that the "piety causes religious unrest" is the normal mode, and the "piety decreases religious unrest" is the alternative mode that CA created for the britannia campaign, to make management make more sense and not increase "cultural unrest" (which is what religious unrest is called in britannia campaign). I hope i explained myself good enough

[Gigantus]

You need a BAT & CFG combo for the file_first to work. Use these lines to create a bat file:

cd ..\..
start kingdoms.exe @mods\british_isles\british_isles.cfg

Simply open new txt document, enter those lines.
"Save as..." other files - name it "british_isles.bat" (without the quotes)
Place the bat file together with your cfg file into the british_isles folder. Create a short cut to the bat file for desktop. (Send to desktop)

[Hellenikon]

Wow it´s a good thing you mentioned that Gigantus, because i was totally ignoring the .bat file (i was using the normal shortcut that is created for the britannia campaign when you install the game).

I mean i knew how mods use the .bat and i have created a few of those files before (i recently made one to make the rusichi mod work for me) but i didn´t know about the requirement for the io file_first to work, that is very good to know, many thanks for the information.

I´ve tested it and it do work. If you set the boolean to "false" instead of "true" then the piety will go again in it´s old way, causing religious unrest. I will write a short tutorial in the coming days explaining it with detail in case anyone want to know how piety works and what is the difference with this alternate piety mode, in case anyone wants to activate it for their mods.

[Gigantus]

Glad to hear it worked. Looking forward to an article about your findings.