Hannibal et al. starting traits/retinue

**intel** · October 19, 2009, 02:37 PM

In my, still not. Calvin, is there any way to improve my Hannibal? Regardless of defeating half milion of Romans, conquering all of Italy with minimal forces, he still has only initial 7 command stars...

...and he still does not have Roman Turncoat

Funny enough, in my few turns played as Macedon, one of my generals got him after fighting one small roman army or not fighting romans at all- I don't remember exactly. But for sure I remember that I fought Romans just two times.

Bugs:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Doubled trait and spelling mistake

regards

**Alavaria** · October 19, 2009, 03:33 PM

The thing is that traits can only give so many command stars. Hannibal's maxed out the command/tactician/whatever traits, the only way to get higher is find some +command ancillaries.

The max for tactician gives you +4 command, you can't get higher.

As for the turncoat thing, you must be having terrible luck if you win many many times and don't get it. Of course then your Macedon general got lucky - it's a percantage chance at the endof each battle, so not getting it - or getting it first thing are both possible.

**cherryfunk** · October 20, 2009, 07:33 AM

Well I think Hannibal, specifically, should have a ridiculous level of bonuses, including troop morale. In the Punic Power thread I also suggest he have at least +4 or +5 ambush, and another +10% to +15% movement bonus.

It's hard to overstate how good a general he was. He was on a par with Alexander or Napoleon, and in many ways he achieved things that they never did. To keep a polygot army together for more than a decade in Rome's backyard, against overwhelming force, without a single defeat, is almost beyond belief. The loyalty he inspired surely rivaled that of Alexander, and he had none of Alexander's Macedonian national pride to draw on, nor the immense wealth that Alexander could distribute. Hannibal kept his army together through sheer force of will.

**~~Ibram~~** · October 20, 2009, 11:33 AM

t's hard to overstate how good a general he was. He was on a par with Alexander or Napoleon, and in many ways he achieved things that they never did. To keep a polygot army together for more than a decade in Rome's backyard, against overwhelming force, without a single defeat, is almost beyond belief. The loyalty he inspired surely rivaled that of Alexander, and he had none of Alexander's Macedonian national pride to draw on, nor the immense wealth that Alexander could distribute. Hannibal kept his army together through sheer force of will.

So long as this representation doesn't affect the Roman campaign, that's fine. He was beaten after all, and the game should reflect that to some level.

**intel** · October 20, 2009, 02:42 PM

Give him the Roman turncoat! And some movement bonus would be nice, as cherry said. Morale bonus is not recommended, since my troops already never rout (with exceptions of low-quality troops).

**cherryfunk** · October 20, 2009, 03:01 PM

Yes, replacing the Merchant with a Roman Turncoat would make sense.

**tone** · October 21, 2009, 08:04 AM

OK, who's going to do this? We need someone to volunteer!

**~~Ibram~~** · October 21, 2009, 08:08 AM

Volunteer to do what? Give Hannibal a Roman Turncoat? Does it really matter?

**Alavaria** · October 21, 2009, 08:20 AM

*lol*
Do you want it in just the Carthage campaign? If he's in other campaigns, obviously it can be done too...

It's just a single line, lol - I can get that done later today.

**tone** · October 21, 2009, 08:34 AM

Thanks. What about all the suggestion in the Carthage campaign like adding the extra general character e.g. Maharbal. Would you be able to do this too?

**Alavaria** · October 21, 2009, 08:41 AM

Hmm, having more than 1 general would be nice, especially if they were there historically.

Give me the names and what stats/traits etc you want for them. I'll add it in before i start a new Carthage campaign.

**tone** · October 21, 2009, 08:43 AM

You're quite useful aren't you!! Thanks.

I'll let someone else say what these should be.

**Alavaria** · October 21, 2009, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by tone

You're quite useful aren't you!! Thanks.

I'll let someone else say what these should be.

*shrug*

I have to assign him base command/management/influence, and then give traits (including level of traits) and any ancillaries you want him to have. (though I daresay the player will just give them all to Hannibal).

Don't forget the personality traits! People will raise hell if we got their personality wrong (only half joking).

**cherryfunk** · October 21, 2009, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Alavaria

*shrug*

I have to assign him base command/management/influence, and then give traits (including level of traits) and any ancillaries you want him to have. (though I daresay the player will just give them all to Hannibal).

Don't forget the personality traits! People will raise hell if we got their personality wrong (only half joking).

Here's what I suggest, at least as a starting point that we can test:

In Hannibal's stack, remove the 2 Marines units. Replace one with Libyan Spearmen and replace the other with a new general -- Maharbal. His stats should be roughly: Command 3 stars, bonuses for fighting with cavalry and for movement, bonus to pillaging, bonus to sieging (he led the siege at Saguntum) young, hardy. His age is unknown but he was likely farily young, so make him 30.

Add a new Carthaginian army next to Hannibal's army. Take any Carthaginian units from Genoa and put them with this army (leave the Celts in Genoa, and maybe add a couple more Celtic units to beef up the Genoa garrison). [Note however that I think there are 4 cavalry units in Genoa, but only give this new army 2 cavalry units, 1 Numidian and 1 Iberian.] This new army should be only 1/2 stack.

Add a new general to this army: Mago Barca, Hannibal's brother. He is 26 years old. Command: 4 stars, bonuses with infantry (he commanded the infantry at Cannae) and seiges (he captured several Italian towns after Cannae), young and hardy. Also make him an ambusher (he commanded the ambush detachment at the Trebia).

That should be a good starting disposition to test.

**Alavaria** · October 21, 2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

In Hannibal's stack, remove the 2 Marines units. Replace one with Libyan Spearmen and replace the other with a new general -- Maharbal. His stats should be roughly: Command 3 stars, bonuses for fighting with cavalry and for movement, bonus to pillaging, bonus to sieging (he led the siege at Saguntum) young, hardy. His age is unknown but he was likely farily young, so make him 30.

Add a new Carthaginian army next to Hannibal's army. Take any Carthaginian units from Genoa and put them with this army (leave the Celts in Genoa, and maybe add a couple more Celtic units to beef up the Genoa garrison). [Note however that I think there are 4 cavalry units in Genoa, but only give this new army 2 cavalry units, 1 Numidian and 1 Iberian.] This new army should be only 1/2 stack.

Add a new general to this army: Mago Barca, Hannibal's brother. He is 26 years old. Command: 4 stars, bonuses with infantry (he commanded the infantry at Cannae) and seiges (he captured several Italian towns after Cannae), young and hardy. Also make him an ambusher (he commanded the ambush detachment at the Trebia).

That should be a good starting disposition to test.

Hannibal's stack has marines? Not in the Carthage campaign, at least ...

Currently the Carthage campaign has hannibal's stack and about a quarter stack in Genoa (5-6 units). Adding more units (half a stack for Mago Barca to command) would give them more units.

Also, by command of 4 stars, would that be base, or some base and some of the tactician trait? 4 base and no tactician trait means he will easily go up to 6+ stars. If 0 base and all tactician, he'll hardly go up any.

Can you start a stack that has two generals in it? For some reason I have the impression that you cannot have more than one "named_character" in a given square, as described in the descr_strat

Originally Posted by tone

I would never think of doing that.

*cough*

Let's try again.
Though I daresay that a player who decides optimally to make full use of the ancillaries by maximising their primary general's relevant statistics (command, influence, +morale etc) will simply give all the relevant ancillaries to Hannibal, recognizing that the RTW battle system does not make use of such statistics on secondary generals who may be on the field (except for bodyguard experience and general hit points).

Then again they'd also do things like have 1 unit of infantry hold off 6 units of angry cohorts ...

**cherryfunk** · October 21, 2009, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Alavaria

Hannibal's stack has marines? Not in the Carthage campaign, at least ...

In the 1-turn campaign he did, but tone may have fixed it already.

Currently the Carthage campaign has hannibal's stack and about a quarter stack in Genoa (5-6 units). Adding more units (half a stack for Mago Barca to command) would give them more units.

Good, they need more units.

Also, by command of 4 stars, would that be base, or some base and some of the tactician trait? 4 base and no tactician trait means he will easily go up to 6+ stars. If 0 base and all tactician, he'll hardly go up any.

Say, 4-5 stars including all traits and ancillaries.

Can you start a stack that has two generals in it? For some reason I have the impression that you cannot have more than one "named_character" in a given square, as described in the descr_strat

I believe you can. If I'm wrong, you'll get a CTD, which is never fatal

Though I daresay that a player who decides optimally to make full use of the ancillaries by maximising their primary general's relevant statistics (command, influence, +morale etc) will simply give all the relevant ancillaries to Hannibal, recognizing that the RTW battle system does not make use of such statistics on secondary generals who may be on the field (except for bodyguard experience and general hit points).

Then again they'd also do things like have 1 unit of infantry hold off 6 units of angry cohorts ...

Or recruit 7 archers per stack, or create a full stack of First Cohorts... we can't stop players from bending the rules. All we can do is tell them that the only people they hurt are themselves.

**tone** · October 21, 2009, 09:39 AM

(though I daresay the player will just give them all to Hannibal).

I would never think of doing that.

**intel** · October 21, 2009, 11:43 AM

Maybe this should be put in House Rules? I'm sure that players who want challenging campaign won't trick themselves in such way.

Even though I'd really like to give my Hannibal a Roman Turncoat of my other general

**Alavaria** · October 21, 2009, 11:54 AM

Depends, I mean if you were talking with a fellow general and were about to attack a Roman legion, surely if he had the "services" of a turncoat, you'd want to at least borrow them.

And since you're HANNIBAL, surely if it was his brother (Mago), he'd be willing to help Hannibal out. Would a Carthaginian really be that attached to a traitor Roman?