Scotland Late Era

**meese** · October 23, 2009, 12:11 AM

As I understand it, Scotland in the late era just uses pikes, pikes and more pikes. Maybe some calivermen too just to have a more interesting army.

But is this really it? I mean, their pike militia are slightly better than the normal and the noble pikemen are slightly better than the late pikemen, but with far longer replenishment times. Meanwhile, many other Christian factions are busy recruiting halberd men at arms and the Scots are stuck with AoR highlanders for armour piercing. Admittedly, Gothic Plate armour only just came out so I may yet be able to recruit more units, but in the meantime I seem to have very little to recruit outside of the pike militias. All the castle units have simply terrible replenishment rates - noble pikemen, noble swordsmen, feudal knights and highland nobles are the only units I can think of at the moment aside from AoR units.

Has anyone played far enough with Scotland to see what else they get? It'd be nice to get some Late Professional units so Scotland can get a more steady army basis, aside from militias.

**cedric37** · October 23, 2009, 03:03 AM

In large cities, build armourer buildings and you'll get scots guards. Those archers really kickass and used together with noble pikemen (also recrtuitable from large cities with armourer) you have a powerfull combo. In castles, i found that the highland nobles are not so bad and their high attack score compensate for the lack of armor piercing. I took half of europe with full stacks composed by 50% of them.

Also a nice thing to do is to join crusades (i made one on vilnius early in the game, took half of lithuania then trade it with the danes in exchange of Ahrus ^^) and favore the chivalry of your generals; rapidly you'll be prompted to build hospitaller chapters. Build them, this way you can recruit knights and dismounted knights in your cities as well as elite archers and elite pikemen.... (a very balanced army IMO)
And the good thing is that hospitallers are cheap plus it is the best cavalry you will ever have as scotland (apart from knights templar if you prefer those chapters) !!

**PerXX** · October 23, 2009, 04:04 AM

It'll depend alot on what Submod you're using.
This is a list of units which has Scotland listed as ownership in the PB's latest RR/RC Compilation:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Note that some of the units are Mercs - and some, like Prussian Archers, will only be recruited in specific areas. Also keep in mind that Scotland - alongside everyone else will be able to recruit some local units. Longbowmen in England, Viking Raiders in Scandinavia, Baltic Spearmen in Lithuania, and so on.

**meese** · October 23, 2009, 04:18 AM

The problem is that most of those are phased out or essentially useless. It -looks- like a long list, but when you take out the ships and artillery and bodyguards, then consider the difficulties with retraining AoR units (local) it's suddenly shortened. The only units I haven't seen so far are the Demi Lancers, Halberd Militia (which I don't think are available as I looked through the export_descr_building) and two types of calivermen. The religious order units are, like all the other castle units, aren't readily available and it's an absolute annoyance trying to ship them from Winchester to Spain.

About the Scots Guard, I'm pretty sure that was taken out a while ago - the export_desc_building only lists them for the Franks.

My main problem isn't with a bland roster, but rather one which doesn't have enough Late Professionals for the late era. In the early, it's fine because you can make do with locals and you won't have trouble retraining. In the late era though, when these locals move out of their local area, suddenly you'll have maybe 25% of your army or more unable to retrain while the others need another 10 turns before you can retrain.

Oh and I'm using RR/RC but not completely hotfixed as I'm nearing my monthly cap.

**cedric37** · October 23, 2009, 04:26 AM

I was speaking for SS6.2 RC4 (no RR, not using the compil). So forget about my comments.
That's the issue with sub-mods, they are so many and thay are so different that it is practicaly impossible to give advices if you are not playing exactly the same environment.

Personally, i dislike the RR thing and attempts to make the game more 'historically" aligned, as at the end i loose the fun of the game for just an illusion of history accuracy. It is not a fair trade IMO, but that's just my opinion after all.

So good luck with your RR/RC scots!

**meese** · October 23, 2009, 04:27 AM

Heh...ah well, thanks anyway

I think I've just gotten used to RR now

**henyo10** · October 23, 2009, 07:42 AM

I'm playing as them now and all I can say is that longbows + pikes = domination. Just place the stakes in front of your infantry and placed your pikes and the sides and you got a citadel on the field.

**Icceman** · October 23, 2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by meese

Has anyone played far enough with Scotland to see what else they get? It'd be nice to get some Late Professional units so Scotland can get a more steady army basis, aside from militias.

Im also playing as scotland with latest hotfix RRRC and All i can recruit in 1268 now is highlanders and highland archers adnd border horses and 1 unit of noble highlandsers and fuedal knights everyy 10 turns. I havent come across mailed knights or dismounted mailed knights. in the custom battle there listed as early period units so why cant I recruit them?? and also highland pikemen havent seen them yet either?

**Tacitursa** · October 23, 2009, 11:28 AM

Im pretty sure pikes dont come untill after 1300+

Most units come between 1300-1500 before then there arent that many

**KittySN** · October 23, 2009, 01:53 PM

This website is awesome for seeing what you'll get. I always check it before playing a new faction.

http://totalwar.honga.net/faction.ph...ate&f=scotland

**PerXX** · October 23, 2009, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by KittySN

This website is awesome for seeing what you'll get. I always check it before playing a new faction.

http://totalwar.honga.net/faction.ph...ate&f=scotland

If you're playing the basic SS 6.1, then that site is awesome.

If you're playing with a submod, it'll start to become inaccurate though.

**Tacitursa** · October 23, 2009, 04:50 PM

Heavy Mail

: available whenever an Armourer is built.

Partial Plate/Mail: Early-Mid High Era, about 1275

Full Plate

: Late Era, about 1380

Gothic Plate

: Mid Late Era, about 1454

Handgun

: about 1310

Spanish Arquebus

: about 1444, other Arquebus: about 1466

Musket

: about 1502

Serpentine Powder Arquebus

: about 1510

Pikes, Polearms

: about 1310

Bombards

: 1250-60

Ribault

: about 1338

Mortar

: about 1348

Cannon

: about 1466

Serpentine

: about 1466

Culverin

: about 1466

Basilisk

: about 1502

Flintlock: about 1610

Thats copy/paste from the RR Guide.pdf

So you will have access to most of the scotish roster between 1310 and 1400. Make sure you build the armourer at your castles.

**meese** · October 23, 2009, 05:46 PM

*nods* But it doesn't make the units any more plentiful except in cities. I'm resorting to have at least half of the settlements as castles on French/Spanish territory. In France, I've only got two cities compared with five or six castles. It's quite unhealthy for my income and often still means a lot of waiting in the castles to replenish multiple stacks of depleted highland nobles. Heck I'm still relying on many dismounted feudal knights which were phased out, just because noble swordsmen take too long.

**Point Blank** · October 24, 2009, 03:17 AM

Well you wouldn't actually expect to be able to replace Highland Nobles easily in Spain, would you?? They are Early Pros and out of their recruitment zones, so their replacement rate decreases.

You can recruit local Spanish-type units.

**meese** · October 24, 2009, 04:15 AM

Well, no, but what I'm trying to say is while, say, Sicily can recruit halberdiers in abundance everywhere from castles as well as the occasional Men-At-Arms, Scotland's stuck only with the occasional Men-At-Arms.

Ah well, I'm phasing out most of the early professionals in my armies now anyway and opting for more militias, locals and mercenaries so waiting isn't much of a problem now. Thanks for your replies!