AI and the Phalanx

[Gibby84]

I decided to play RTW again after I saw this mod, and I gotta say it's really accurate and fun to play! Good job with this!

I've just noticed something though which tend to make my armies seem invincible. I started of with Macedonia and I am fighting the Greeks. I noticed that the AI never puts their units in a phalanx formation. My units (the 2nd available foot soldier, I forget what they are called but the ones with long spears) decimate them with maybe 3 casualties a battle. Even the spartans run up to them and just die. Is it because they have longer spears than the greek phalanxes? Even so, their units charge at me and I know you can't charge in a phalanx formation.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[spoon26]

the greek units were changed. they dont have the phalanx formation anymore. and the longer sarissa is also a pretty big advantage over the shorter greek spear so dont expect even the mighty spartans to break through the pike wall like they did in vanilla. you'll only suffer when your phalangites get out flanked, fall out of formation, and they use swords

[Gibby84]

ahh I see.
I did a custom battle while controlling the greeks and I guess the Epirote is the only one with phalanx ability.
Just kinda confusing when the description on the greek units said that they can form a phalanx, but it's good to know that its not a bug.

Thanks

[TITANAS84]

I think this mod and the eb give historical advandage for pike phalanx.hoplite phalanx lose easy against them.only romans swordsmen beat them.

[Quinn Inuit]

Here's the explanation for all of this*:
The hoplite phalanx is fundamentally different from the Macedonian phalanx. Hoplites have heavier armour and larger shields, while the Macedonian phalangite has lighter armour and a smaller shield, but a much longer spear carried in two hands.

The hoplite phalanx is incapable in-game, as it was historically, of beating the pike phalanx over level ground. You can hold them off for awhile, though. This is one of the reasons the hoplite phalanx dies out during the third century B.C. (there are many others, mostly economic).

The hoplite phalanx does have advantages in rough terrain, though. Hoplites are more effective on broken ground, and, due to their heavier armour and weaponry, are more effective in single combat. Hoplites are also more effective against missile troops for the same reason, which is why any phalanx army needs to be well-support with ranged units.

The pike phalanx can be easily dealt with if you attack them from the flanks or rear. If you're confronting them with lighter troops, I recommend either opening with a cavalry charge to break up the spear wall and get your troops into melee range or trying to envelop the pike line and kill it from the sides before they chew up your center. As a pike leader, though, if I see the enemy doing that I simply split up the pike line and wheel one half to each side, leaving maybe a unit or two in the center for cover along with whatever I've got in reserve.


*I was around helping out a little at the time these decisions were made, so I vaguely remember how all of this went down. I wasn't actually involved, just present.

[pannonian]

*I was around helping out a little at the time these decisions were made, so I vaguely remember how all of this went down. I wasn't actually involved, just present.

The removal of the phalanx ability came in at around 1.0 or close to of RTR Platinum. I remember expressing my preference for this, saying that it better fitted how I felt a hoplite phalanx would work, and Lestat being delighted by a satisfied customer.

[JuliusRomanus]

I prefer the hoplites (Greek) because if they are in combat against a pike unit, simply make them move

[JuliusRomanus]

Actually. I prefer the Illyrian hoplites, their cooler and stronger. sorry for posting twice

[Quinn Inuit]

It's ok. btw, you can always just edit your first post to include the second. (Edit Post button)

Yeah, I thought the Illyrian hoplites were a little overpowered in RTRPE, so I nerfed them a little in the ExRM. I just didn't buy that the Illyrians could field hoplites comparable to those of the Greeks.

[Quinn Inuit]

Cool!

Man, we really lost a lot of institutional memory when that forum went down. We're lucky some of the people like you and LestaT are still around.