[Preview] Pre-reform Parthian units!

[AqD]

All done! 6 new units, and unit re-classification, plus overhaul of unit recruitment regions and changes for the reform in 220BC.


The new unit set is brought in attempt to re-create the early difficult faced by Parthians - being a newly migrated nomadic tribe to Parthia, they were poor and vulnerable, and unlikely to have any formiddable cataphract in the beginning, though similar cavalry already appeared somewhere else. Their military should be weak and consist of mostly irregulars, similar to other steppe people, and get better and more professional as you expand further into the heartland of future Parthian empire.

Basilikon Hippeis(Royal Cavalry)

The bodyguards of early Parthian generals. The Parthians or at least their aristocracy were quite hellenized, considering greek is one of their primary languages and printed on all coins. Hence it's likely that their best unit is equipped in a hydrid of the original Dahae riders and Hellenistic cavalrymen - with bows and light steppe armour which cover much of the rider and horse, but also move in tight formation and wield the xyston for close combat. While being flexible, They are no match to Hetairoi from the successor kingdoms, and must be used wisely and cautiously.

Medoi Kataphrakitoi (Median Cataphracts)

Early cataphracts, available in Media where Parthians raised their heavy warhorses - the Nisean breed. There is no record of when and where they first employeed real cataphracts, however, in Media there were indeed evidence of veyr heavily armoured cavalrymen dated even before the Parthian conquest - So it should begin from here (got to be somewhere anyway).

Parthoi Hippakontistai (Parthian Skirmisher Cavalry)

Light javelin-throwing riders. They should form the bulk of parthian cavalry arm alongwith horse archers. The majority of steppe riders will no longer be missile-only units as portrayed in previous version. Instead they're made much closer to what they really were in history: fierce, impetuous sometimes, and skilled at individual combat but not as an unit. What they lacked are discipline and good equipments, especially protective gears. Therefore it's important not to expose them under arrows or face direct charge from heavy cavalry, but given enough numbers they can take down even the heaviest cataphracts.

Hellenikoi Automoloi (Greek Deserters)

The Parthians often employeed captured or deserted greeks in their army, one of the most notable example being in 128BC where the greek POWs sided with enemy Saka, caused parthian defeat and also the King's death. The unit is a generalization of all deserted greek units: well-trained and well-equipped soldiers from different sources, fight as spearmen rather than hoplite or phalangites. They would be the most capable infantry you can hire in early Parthian campaign - but remember that while they're displined troops - many of them veterans, their loyality is always dubious and they would run at the first sight of troubles!

Armenioi Eugeneis Pelekephoroi (Armenian Noble Axemen)

The Armenians and nearby Iberians (Iberians in Georgia, not Spain) have had a tradition of heavy infantry long before Romans came and spreaded the lies of Imitation Legionaries. Heavy armour, javelins, swords or axes, and large shields (thureos or not) are all their traditional equipments. The unit is local to modern-day Armenia and Georgia, and represents all heavy infantry formed by their middle and lower nobles (the azat; freedmen).

Hurkanioi Toxotai (Hyrcanian Archers)

plus Reformed General's Bodyguards for Armenians:

Nakhararakan Aspet

Post-reform Armenian General's bodyguards. It's the same unit, but made to represent the improvement of arms over hundreds of years, and also the transition from Greek culture to Persian culture in Armenia during the late period of Parthian empire (or perhaps the beginning of Sassanids).

credit: realistic shields, greek helmets, persian arm bracers come from ferres' unit packs... full list

[Caligula Caesar]

That's good news. I don't see anything though...

[inquisitor]

[florin80]

There seems to be a link there, but I can confirm it`s not showing for me either.

[Emperor Domitianus]

For sure a problem with the image hosting site.

[AqD]

fixed!

[Quinn Inuit]

Those look good, and more historical. (I think a couple of the riders still need armour, though, unless I'm just looking at them wrong.)

One thing: I thought the Parthians didn't really have an infantry arm, so why give them lots of infantry units? (Unless they're AOR, in which case ignore this.)

[AqD]

@Quinn: the all-cavalry army came before their contact with Romans. I don't have much information about their early army, but judging from the battles happened on pontic steppe and Massagetae, it's not all cavalry warfare as the Xiongnu and Mongolians used. Infantry would make up 1/2 to 2/3 of the total force (mostly light infantry), and the cavalry are mixed horse archers, javelin cavalry (almost non-existent in mongolia), and heavy cavalry with bows, axes, and spears (or long javelins). And greek heavy infantry probably played very important roles in their conquest of Babylonia.

Even in later times, the majority of their army (the whole, not only the field army) are still infantry, stationed in the cities and forts in the east, against steppe nomads. Early greek infantry, late thureophoroi, median infantry, slingers and archers and javelinmen/axemen were historical; the armenian infantry were probably unused by parthians, but they could be very useful!


PS: some cavalry have clothes covering their armour, such as the Klibanophoroi (based on 4th century cavalrymen ) Also the AOR and regular troops are all mixed now. The border between the two classes is no longer clear; some are listed as regional levies because they're relatively unimportant..

[Caligula Caesar]

Those are really nice skins! One thing: the horse on the Eugeneis Hippeis looks heavier than that on the Eugeneis kataphraktoi. Is that intentional?

I think Quinn meant the Median cavalry units, BTW.

[AqD]

@Caligula Caesar: nope. The barding of Eugeneis Hippeis is made of felt, while the one used by cataphract horse is metal lamellar + decorated persian carpet

The median cavalry wears dyed clothes covering the scale armour - you can only see them in close range.

[Caligula Caesar]

Well, the cataphract horse looks like its wearing a miniskirt

The thing that looks a bit strange on the Medians is the fact that the shoulder plates are outside the shirt and the breastblate inside.

[Quinn Inuit]

Clothes over the armour? Oh, ok. I see now.

Are you sure about their use of Greek infantry? I can't really comment about the locals further east, but I distinctly remember reading that the Parthians never fielded Greek troops until near the end of the empire, at which point they took one look at the Sassanid army and fled.

[Mirionis9]

Nice work. Well done

[AqD]

Clothes over the armour? Oh, ok. I see now.

Are you sure about their use of Greek infantry? I can't really comment about the locals further east, but I distinctly remember reading that the Parthians never fielded Greek troops until near the end of the empire, at which point they took one look at the Sassanid army and fled.

yes in early period. You can check the book Cambridge History of Iran Volum 3 (I) and Osprey's Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War.

[Quinn Inuit]

yes in early period. You can check the book Cambridge History of Iran Volum 3 (I) and Osprey's Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War.

Are you sure? I was looking in both of those books on Google and was almost completely unable to find reference to the Parthians using infantry. Two exceptions:
1) They tried to use some Greeks against the Saka late in the empire (this is what I was thinking of above), but the Greeks were clearly ancestors of Sir Robin and, after seeing the Saka army, deserted. (Cambridge History)
2) They apparently used some local north Median/Kurdish (the author uses them almost interchangeably) troops against Marc Antony's forces. This might be an exception, though, since Marc Antony had specifically come in through Armenia to avoid places where the Parthians could use cavalry against him. They probably had to recruit infantry to fight him off. These infantry performed well, though, so the existing RTR Cyrtians probably need a boost. (Osprey book)


btw, are you adding an Elamite archer unit? They were historically famous for their archery, and were used as late as Magnesia from what I've been able to find.

[AqD]

Are you sure? I was looking in both of those books on Google and was almost completely unable to find reference to the Parthians using infantry. Two exceptions:
1) They tried to use some Greeks against the Saka late in the empire (this is what I was thinking of above), but the Greeks were clearly ancestors of Sir Robin and, after seeing the Saka army, deserted. (Cambridge History)

There is no concrete evidence, just my guess:

1. They wouldn't send large numbers of untrusted greek POWs to fight, unless they believe they do need heavy infantry and the greeks are far superior to their own.
2. From the Seleucid records (or lack of) against Parthians: Seleucid army was able to beat them repeatedly with ease, 2) Seleucid army during parthian campaigns wasn't modified to counter an army of all horse archers and heavy cavalry.
3. Parthians obviously have large and fortificated cities. The garrion troops have to be infantry.
4. The armies they sent against Roman invasion are pathetically small: no more than 50,000 (just compare that with what Armenians or Persians had used). Those "armies" are more like large raiding parties.

2) They apparently used some local north Median/Kurdish (the author uses them almost interchangeably) troops against Marc Antony's forces. This might be an exception, though, since Marc Antony had specifically come in through Armenia to avoid places where the Parthians could use cavalry against him. They probably had to recruit infantry to fight him off. These infantry performed well, though, so the existing RTR Cyrtians probably need a boost. (Osprey book)

The ordinary levies as Armenians had shown are completely useless against well-equipped and well-trained legionaries. I think the Medians that Antony faced and the greeks who Trajan captured are both similar to the sparabara or kardakes in persian empire - as semi-professionals or househeld troops. Besides it'd be quite difficult to actually "recruit" any greek thureophoroi/cavalry (there were aspis-armed cavalry) if these soldiers are not specially kept - there were few greeks and those who are would have no reason to keep themselves armed in the "traditional" way for hundreds of years, especiall since that they lived mainly in cities and it's under peaceful Parthian rule.

btw, are you adding an Elamite archer unit? They were historically famous for their archery, and were used as late as Magnesia from what I've been able to find.

I have no information about them except for the Assyrian period. Do you have any text or pics of them during Seleucid rules?

Oh darn darn,beat me to the punch aghhhh. I was trying to desperately rework some eastern models..as you guys helped out with TFT/58BC/77BC and with me trying to fix TE Gold faction rosters. I am not a skinner so these models are RTR or AR's etc. I used a Variag horse armour also as test,as recieved consent with due credit. If I can help let me know as my current work is this area. Currently I want to fix some TFT models(old AR's with wrong cas files,aghhh)somehow??? So working on this also.

Thanks! I don't need more help on the unit roster though, unless someone has historical evidences on early parthian army (which is completely absent by now ) Working on Armenians will begin soon


PS: secondary HP is not counted for cavalry in battle, so you must give the horse barding value to rider's defense points.

[Quinn Inuit]

There is no concrete evidence, just my guess:

They wouldn't send large numbers of untrusted greek POWs to fight, unless they believe they do need heavy infantry and the greeks are far superior to their own.

No argument here.

From the Seleucid records (or lack of) against Parthians: Seleucid army was able to beat them repeatedly with ease, 2) Seleucid army during parthian campaigns wasn't modified to counter an army of all horse archers and heavy cavalry.

Interesting point. You're right, of course, AFAIK. However, if the Parthians were related to a Scythian tribe, wouldn't they have been primarily cavalry from time immemorial? I'm confused.

Parthians obviously have large and fortificated cities. The garrion troops have to be infantry.

That's true. The garrisoning seems to have happened on a sub-national level. In other words, local lords were probably responsible for what garrisons there were.

The armies they sent against Roman invasion are pathetically small: no more than 50,000 (just compare that with what Armenians or Persians had used). Those "armies" are more like large raiding parties.

Small, but expensive. A lot of all-cavalry armies seem to have been fairly small, yet quite effective. Look at Euthydemos's Bactrian cav army. The Parthians seem to have gone for quality and speed over quantity, using speed as a substitute for needing to maintain an army on each side of the empire. They also seem to have used all-cav armies in the Pacorus vs. Bassus match (2 rounds, Bassus wins by knockout).

The ordinary levies as Armenians had shown are completely useless against well-equipped and well-trained legionaries. I think the Medians that Antony faced and the greeks who Trajan captured are both similar to the sparabara or kardakes in persian empire - as semi-professionals or househeld troops. Besides it'd be quite difficult to actually "recruit" any greek thureophoroi/cavalry (there were aspis-armed cavalry) if these soldiers are not specially kept - there were few greeks and those who are would have no reason to keep themselves armed in the "traditional" way for hundreds of years, especiall since that they lived mainly in cities and it's under peaceful Parthian rule.

I think your household troops interpretation makes sense, but, if that's the case, why did they need the Greek infantry we discussed above? I'm wondering if the mountain troops Antony faced were mostly skirmishers and ranged troops, good for raids but not so good at fighting off the Saka due to lack of armour.

There were aspis-armed cavalry? And what Greeks did Trajan capture?

I think you're also probably onto something about the presence of Greek troops in Mesopotamia. It would make sense that they made up the garrison forces there, since the Greeks seem to have been given a considerable degree of autonomy.

I have no information about them except for the Assyrian period. Do you have any text or pics of them during Seleucid rules?

As a matter of fact: http://tinyurl.com/elamitearchers

[Quinn Inuit]

PS: secondary HP is not counted for cavalry in battle, so you must give the horse barding value to rider's defense points.

Sorry for the double-post, but are you sure about that? I just ran some tests and it appears to have an impact.

[Kylan271]

Oh darn darn,beat me to the punch aghhhh. I was trying to desperately rework some eastern models..as you guys helped out with TFT/58BC/77BC and with me trying to fix TE Gold faction rosters. I am not a skinner so these models are RTR or AR's etc. I used a Variag horse armour also as test,as recieved consent with due credit. If I can help let me know as my current work is this area. Currently I want to fix some TFT models(old AR's with wrong cas files,aghhh)somehow??? So working on this also.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think I overcome the Mount prob.hmm if this is OK cool,or suggestions please. I refer to the fact secondary_armour is not used for your mounts-ridden horse/camels,so barding looks cool,but useless in game,does nothing...,so I got cranky and ahem designed mwah own sytem..^_*

Elephants get 3 defence bonus..hmmm so how???? Try mass Sq and see? I lived around horses in the past so know they can defend themselves..trained far better,so based on mass Sq as approx,I get:

1=1mass/2=2 to 6/3=7 to 9/4=10 to 16/5=17 to 25mass. So an cheat Oliphant has 10 defence(100mass),and your Elephants 4(10-15 range). Not perfect but something..and you add this to your rider's pri_armour defence.

Barding,I get say 12 cataphract,7 for 1/2 armour & chain,and 3 for say padded/quilt armour. This is added to your rider's primary_armour armour stat. It makes cataphracts more like tanks they were and gives your cavalry worthwhile stats from armour now. ^_*

[Kylan271]

PS: secondary HP is not counted for cavalry in battle, so you must give the horse barding value to rider's defense points.

Yep I add horse data to primary armour data! I use Alex.exe via TE Mod,and get up to 49 units in faction roster recruiting screen also(I was told HC limit is 32???),heh ^_*. I do not have a solid historical base or experienced in modelling like you,so have to go by a "what if?" ie fantasy you could say campaign. So models I use are ones that look OK and fill rosters game balance wise,ie infantry to Parthia to match other infantry and garrison(try filling a foreign huge city with just horse with distance to capital penalties to boot and watch them die from riots!! Lol,so experience shows me Parthia needs infantry!). I do know some Parthian websites,hmm I will find them today,gee even have Parthia recipies sheesh if I recall! I have a Pahlavi online dictionary also,link is here:http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/tamil/

Parthia: http://www.parthia.com/
Persia :http://www.iranchamber.com/history/p...thian_army.php