Noah's Ark ?

[handsome pete]

okay here are some problems with the Noah's Ark story i thought we could talk about. what i'd like to know is what kind of unmentioned miracles do followers of abrahamic religions believe must have occurred in order to make sense of the story.

1) all the people following the ark are related to Noah. so if this is the case, why isn't there only one y-chromosome getting around?

2) if noah only placed two of each animal, why is there such a large diversity of genetics in animal populations and again why isn't there only one y-chromosome getting around?

3) what did he do about the carnivore's. did he have giant stores of salted meat, and fresh water.

4) when the carnivore's got off the ark, why didn't they just eat the other animals? since the only way carnivore's survive is by having much smaller populations than their prey. did they go without meat until the herbivore's had repopulated? if so how what does this tell us about god and sin. since sin caused the lion and lamb to no longer lie down together and was a decision made by man.

5) what about cleaning up all the . apparently if you transport animals for prolonged periods of time without cleaning up their they get sick and die.

6) whenever people have tried to build wooden boats on the scale of the ark, the pressure placed on the surrounding water causes it to come in through the planks, meaning that pumps are required. did noah use a pump ?

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

easy.

the Great Flood was not global.

[KingDave]

easy.

the Great Flood was not global.

Easier. It NEVER happened.

Great flood never happened. No point in discussing this ridiculous topic more.



Close thread.

[hellas1]

@Seleucos,

In response to what you posted, my views:

A. Such inland cultures get rain or most likely live near rivers. Rivers tend to flood.

No friend. Inland cultures talk about a World Covering Flood not a local river rising, cresting and falling back to normal again. Your wrong.

B. Wouldn't it be a bit strange not to have males and females alive after the flood? How would they explain how humanity survived?

This is easy enough to understand and straightforward, true. My point was that Noah & his wife would be the prototypes of the "new" human race.


C. That's what ancient cultures did. Whenever something went terribly wrong, especially something concerning nature, they would think the gods were displeased with them. Most people can't bear the thought that bad things can happen without a reason.

This presupposes that NO supernatural phaenomena CAN or WILL or HAVE ever occurred. It also shows your Agnostic/Atheistic tendencies or bias. Much of history has recorded indigenous cultures who have prophets or seers within the tribe or nation, as well as supernatural phaenomena happening within the culture or cross culturally into other cultures.

D. Etc. is a Latin term, and as far as I know the Latins had no local deluge myth.

Point taken, I should have clarified but didn't. Touche! to me... however
in the next post of yours please ask me to clarify, it's much more simple.

@Archheretik,

Please go to the Creation Research Institute website and examine what professionals have to say. I'm not a geologist, plate techtonics specialist, undersea geologist either.
BTW, Who told you that a Global flood never occurred? Please examine the scientific evidence and sociological evidence and then post


@Wizav65,

See above.

hellas1

[Arch-hereticK]

@Archheretik,

Please go to the Creation Research Institute website and examine what professionals have to say. I'm not a geologist, plate techtonics specialist, undersea geologist either.
BTW, Who told you that a Global flood never occurred? Please examine the scientific evidence and sociological evidence and then post


hellas1

Well number one an institute with a pre-concieved notion on how the world is formed cannot be trusted to have an unbiased opinion. But I shall see what they have to say nonetheless.

Why do they repeatedly claim that evolution is what dictates the age of the earth? That has nothing to do with the age of the earth. And coal does take millions and millions of years to be created, the "flash" coal process by volcanic eruption would burn organic material away, it's just impossible.

Prolonged flooding leaves layers of silt. There is no silt layer all over the earth, there is no evidence to suggest that there was ever enough water to cover the entire earth. The argument fossils of sea-creatures being found on mountains is proof of the flood is false. A fossil takes at least 15,000 years to form and then only in very specific situations under extreme pressure and specific forms of sediment. Those fossils could not have been put there by the flood.

"Dinosaur Soft Tissue Issue Is Here to Stay"- was an interesting article, makes me question what we know about organic decay.

Now I've listened to the minority and learned some things, not all bad. Here's something for you:

An expert in the evolution-creationism controversy, professor and author Brian Alters states that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution (1)

A 1991 Gallup poll of Americans found that about 5% of scientists (including those with training outside biology) identified themselves as creationists. (2)

the 600 Darwin Dissenters represent about 0.054% of the estimated 1,108,100 biological and geological scientists in the US in 1999. In addition, a large fraction of the Darwin Dissenters have specialties unrelated to research on evolution; of the dissenters, three-quarters are not biologists. (3)

The roughly 150 biologist Darwin Dissenters represent about 0.0157% of the US biologists that existed in 1999 (4)

*****
So it seems the stat you are looking for is around 0.02% for biologists that dispute evolution.
Source(s):

(1) Finding the Evolution in Medicine, Cynthia Delgado, NIH Record, July 28, 2006.
(2) Ruling, Kitzmiller v. Dover page 83.
(3) Chang, Kenneth. "Few Biologists But Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition" (php), The New York Times, 2006-03-21.
(4) Crowther, Robert (2006-06-21). Dissent From Darwinism 'Goes Global' as Over 600 Scientists Around the World Express Their Doubts About Darwinian Evolution

[Tacitursa]

"Dinosaur Soft Tissue Issue Is Here to Stay"- was an interesting article, makes me question what we know about organic decay.

All the creation sources of that article are full of lies and biased fantasy. You should check the primary non-creation sources and read all about it.

Creationist's will have you beleive they found dinosaur bones filled with fresh juicy marrow and red blood cells which is miles from the truth.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Easy. It's a myth.

[handsome pete]

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress [c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." - New International Version

i'm not sure how you can think that means he didn't destroy everything.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

One Geographical location:

Mount Arrarat

[Hobbes]

Easy. It's a myth.

I couldn't agree more.

and who wrote the bible?...

Some guys that collected their age's stories. Or someone involved in cocaine.

[handsome pete]

Now concerning the DNA I don't see that as a problem unless one is looking for one. From Adam and Eve all men and women came and until the flood this had no bearing whatsoever on why some should perish and others not. Indeed it is from Noah that all of us come but is that any different to believing that we all come from a single-celled creature?

ok, the theory behind coming from a single celled creature is that the process of change happened over a very long period of time (3.7 billion years). are you saying that you think evolution occurs but that it can occur over 3000 years or even ten thousand years. that would be kinda ironic since i have often heard pastors say that only a fool believes that evolution can occur (though as ferrets pointed out it's a bit hazy whether they're even using the word correctly).

so interpretationally it seems we have two alternatives, either evolution is occurring through natural processes, or it is occurring through the power of god, and either way it can and has occurred much quicker than even the advocates of evolution are willing to believe or it is symbolic.

[basics]

" are you saying that you think evolution occurs but that it can occur over 3000 years or even ten thousand years. that would be kinda ironic since i have often heard pastors say that only a fool believes that evolution can occur (though as ferrets pointed out it's a bit hazy whether they're even using the word correctly)."

handsome pete,

No, I am saying that from the point of creation adaption worked. When these men say, I assume here, that there is no evolution, what they mean is not on the timescale nor the meaning that has come to be accepted as evolutionary. We all know that everything adapts and as a creationist there is no problem there.

Where we do have differences is that God says He made all things in six days. We can read how and see that it was mature but it was not until slightly later that adaption began as things now under a curse began to work or grow. I call all this as up and running exactly as God planned it all.

So if it were possible for Darwin to be there in those days and having cut down a tree he would have found more rings than it was entitled to having just been made. The same can be said about anything including fossils if only because God in creation left nothing to chance that men might prove Him a little faulty.

[Gaidin]

And what does that geographical location prove?

[Sir Winston Churchill]

And what does that geographical location prove?

That Noah's Ark could in fact have existed.

[Gaidin]

Uhh...how? Saying the name of a mountain and then going "yea this shows it could have existed" don't really tell much.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Uhh...how? Saying the name of a mountain and then going "yea this shows it could have existed" don't really tell much.

I'm sorry I thought everyone had my brain, I should've explained more.

What I mean is, somewhere up in Mount Arrarat, there is this ginormous ship stuck up in the mountains. I don't think anyone has been up there to check it out, because it's so high up, but it's up there. I don't know much about it though really.

I'm just going on a strictly "if you can prove 100% it's not real and didn't happen then fine" basis, just to be safe.

[Gaidin]

I'm just going on a strictly "if you can prove 100% it's not real and didn't happen then fine" basis, just to be safe.

Given that its geologically and physically impossible to have had that much water on earth, im gonna run go ahead and say its 100% not real.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

What I mean is, somewhere up in Mount Arrarat, there is this ginormous ship stuck up in the mountains. I don't think anyone has been up there to check it out, because it's so high up, but it's up there. I don't know much about it though really.

If no one's been there to see it, how do you know anything about it?

There is a formation on Ararat that people have, for centuries, associated with Noah's Ark, but it's nothing of the sort.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

If no one's been there to see it, how do you know anything about it?

There is a formation on Ararat that people have, for centuries, associated with Noah's Ark, but it's nothing of the sort.

Just because people haven't been up there to see it first-hand doesn't mean they don't fly by and take pictures, or see it from afar.

Given that its geologically and physically impossible to have had that much water on earth, im gonna run go ahead and say its 100% not real.

Since when were you God and knew if it was or was not possible? And who said it was the whole world?

[Gaidin]

Since when were you God and knew if it was or was not possible?

What kind of red herring is that?

And who said it was the whole world?

Why...the Bible did. Or hadn't you known that?