Khwarezm strategy

**TheBromgrev** · October 20, 2009, 07:42 PM

OK, I'm playing the new compilation patch, and started a game as the Khwarezm. Before the map changes, the only way into Iran from Khorosan was to go past the bridge to Gorgan. Now, there's an alternate pass to Mashhad. In 6.2 early campaign I would conquer Iran as normal, then focus on securing my borders and preparing for the Mongols. I would let them take over the three northern desert towns (after making them pay a high price for them) and then defend the bridge to Gorgan with 4 full stacks until I finished them off. With the map change, that strategy doesn't work. Has anyone managed to fend them off, or is victory a lost cause in the end?

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · October 20, 2009, 09:04 PM

Persia...The Land of Kings...

Don't worry my friend you'll be fine, Here's why Attrition. In this instance your like Russia...keep pulling back and leave them...NOTHING. Every city they take the will pay for with buckets of blood. Every Mongol killed is irreplaceable. before they take the city sell everything and leave them nothing. I just sell the military assets, you be ruthless as it strikes you. bait them with solitary units then decimate the isolated stack.{use misdirection/isolation}

+one city full of spear militia = three or more irreplaceable stacks...
-also remember your military quality and diversity is unequaled & unsurpassed.
+K-Shah is the scourge and nightmare of Stainless Steel. You can afford a myriad of loses the Mongols cannot. remember Pyrrhic victories = epic fail for the Golden Horde

**TheBromgrev** · October 20, 2009, 09:55 PM

Yep, that's EXACTLY what I used to do. However, the new compilation mod introduces a new way into the heart of Iran via a mountain pass instead of a bridge, which I can't seem to defend properly. Am I not using my armies properly, or is there another way to defeat them?

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · October 20, 2009, 10:05 PM

Kay lemmie boil the fat off off it. They are in peril...NOT YOU!!!! Those first three cities they get equal stripped bare. They will build militia as replacements. Although their base-foot archers are superior...

cavalry charge + archers = dead Mongols. You do the same thing as the AI K-Shah where them out with Pyrrhic victories then reclaim your lands guarded by tier one opposition.

Bottom line: Your gonna bleed, but their going to win themselves to death. It's ATTRITION and all the numbers are in your favor. Your gonna win but it's gonna hurt.....

P.S. Don't forget to bait single stacks away from the heard. Isolate and destroy. Rinse and Repeat.

**TheBromgrev** · October 20, 2009, 10:12 PM

What formation/army composition do you suggest when defending the mountain pass? When defending the bridge to Gorgan, the same strategy I used before works wonders, but it utterly fails in the mountain pass to Masshad. Here's a link to the formation I typically use: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=301017

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · October 20, 2009, 10:19 PM

Very nice. As to field tactics I defer to greater Minds. I'm too chicken to take those murderers on in the field. I talk a good game but outside city walls....

Gentlemen and Ladies assistance for the man if you please... I will say this though . If they don't take cities my strategy is to take them on three stacks to one and auto-calc them back to the steppes.

**meese** · October 20, 2009, 11:00 PM

I only ever fought the Mongols as the Turks (and subsequently had to fight the Timurids as well) and all I can say is your best chance will probably be in the cities/castles. On the field, with their horse archers and dismounted archers, the Mongols are a real pain to say the least. In the cities, that is somewhat negated as they will be firing volleys into the air rather than straight at you. It also makes their horse archers much easier to kill. Of course, I'm speaking only from the Turkish roster perspective which, at that time, is far less reliant on cavalry than the Khwarezms (as far as I know).

**Wadey** · October 21, 2009, 04:58 AM

If you've got archers with stakes then you shouldn't have too much trouble even in open field! In this mountain pass there should be plenty of high ground to choose from so back yourself into a corner and surround yourself with stakes and spears!

Anti-Mongol tactics are'nt that drastically different from normall defence tactics. All units have weaknesses for you to exploit, HA can be beaten by archers, HC can be beaten by infantry provided you dont allow them to charge again and again. Good generals make a huge difference but I guess in attrition warfare you dont want to be wasting good generals in battles you can win.

As has been said, they will win battles but its winning the war that counts!

**Tyrenia** · October 21, 2009, 05:13 AM

My strategy for Mongol killing is somewhat different. When I'm not trying to conquer a province in Cuman Territory, then give it to the Mongol's for an Alliance, and watch as they attack the Khanate and the Rus, I generally give them the desert cities (after being stripped of course), for an alliance.

Then, using stockpiled gold, I bribe them to attack the Cumans (with whom I have an alliance), wait until the bulk of their forces are far away, and take my cities back, while the Cuman's deal with the bulk of their forces.

I stink at RT, so a diplomatic/monetary solution is always preferable for me. Constantly defending fully garrisoned cities agains 4 full stacks at once just doesn't work,even if the garrison is 3/4 spearmen, 1/4 archers. Their numbers make victory all but impossible.

**KittySN** · October 21, 2009, 11:36 AM

You can always declare a Jihad on Jerusalem or something after the first turn of merging and preparing to get reinforcements nearby your threatened settlements and then sally. It puts the Mongols on the defensive so you can attack their gigantic army how you wish. It's sort of a small detour for the Jihad armies, but it's the only way to retain all your starting settlements and smash much of the Mongol momentum. At least that's what I did. Just make sure you have the battle timer off because you're going to be bait and tackling a lot! Long range insanity!

**cedric37** · October 22, 2009, 10:01 AM

As usual i like your strategy Tyrenia +rep to you. Mine is quite similar

When i once played as Kwarezm in a late campagn SS6.1, i just sold all but one siege workshop/catapulta maker/balista maker; which gave me like 20-30k on turn 1 and bought a diplomat in Khiva (cannot remember if i started with one). Then just before they start assaulting Khiva, i negociated a peace with all my available cash and a heavy tribute (2000 for 20 turns). After negociations were out, our relations were perfect (the key is to propose something generous so he cannot refuse frankly but cannot accept, BUT your relations will improve. When you hit 'perfect' relations, then offer something 'very generous' and they will eventually accept). After that, they never tried to betray me so i could invade most of the SE lands, plus turky, constantinople and israel. After i started to conquer cuman khanate too... I don't know why but it seems they never tried to bother with cumans... loool...so they eventually finished to loose all their generals and were bankrupt after 125 turns. They suffered too from the plague. It was time to betray my allies and i destroyed their whole army massed near Khiva/Embi in only 2-3 turns (by the way they did loose 1/4 or 1/3 of their starting armies already). By that time, i had 4-5 full stacks full of veterans elite warriors, so it was not a big deal. My rep was already very very bad so i did not care about betraying allies

I have yet to try this in SS6.2 though as it seems that in every of my games mongols are much more agressive.

**TheBromgrev** · October 22, 2009, 05:41 PM

They also get reinforcement stacks now. Lucky for me they decided to ignore the eastern pass and stormed the bridge to Gorgan instead. I fought off three waves (was only expecting one), but won't be able to to survive the fourth. Does anyone know when they stop coming? Yes, I could just use the auto_win cheat, but then it wouldn't be any fun.

**Arbitrary Crusader** · October 22, 2009, 06:50 PM

I thought Khwarezmian was to be destroyed by the mongol in 1220's

**TheBromgrev** · October 22, 2009, 09:38 PM

True, but I start their games in 1100 to try and prevent that. Trying to save them in the late campaign is almost impossible. In previous versions it wasn't too hard if you were prepared, but I wasn't ready for the reinforcement stacks in the RR/RC compilation mod.

**cedric37** · October 23, 2009, 04:17 AM

Be aware that if one plays SS6.2 RC4 in late era, as kwarezm, he cannot offer a cease-fire immediatly but he must let mongols take at least Khiva and Konjikala (those cities already start with 2 full mongol stacks at their doors). If he make peace with mongols right away by giving them Konjikala and Khiva (like i did) he will experience a strange bug where mongols will be besieging their own cities... and this will finish in a CTD. Gracul told me that it will be fixed in the next version.

**JorisofHolland** · October 23, 2009, 05:18 AM

Most of the mongol generals are great commanders, but don't use your own commanders to counter this - keep defending anything they attack with full stacks untill they are weakened enough, then launch a counter-attack (with your super generals) and drive them out of your lands.