The Pope is a hypocrite!

[SturmChurro]

Well whenever I attack a catholic nation and I am playing as a catholic nation The pope always excommunicates me for destroying the other nations.I don't want to be excommunicated I stop attacking...guess what the Papal states attacked me! I attacked them back and started to beat him then HE EXCOMMUNICATED ME!!!

[Goofy]

Isn't that logical? What would you do if you were the Pope? I'd excommunicate you too if I were the head of Papal States.
I think that you are able to fix this in M2TW files, but this requires unpacking of the game and some experience, or help by an experienced/capable modder. I can't help you myself at the moment, because I'm on my sister for this evening and some hours tomorrow.
And please, use dots when you write.

I'm on my sister

...at my sister's.
Didn't know how to express it that time.

[Nazgûl Killer]

I can't help you myself at the moment, because I'm on my sister for this evening and some hours tomorrow.

Dude...
That's... Sick... (Yes, I know that's not what you meant )


In any way, this sounds like typical M2TW behavior to me, I suggest you download Stainless Steel, Dues lo Vult or some other modification (The two specified are for Kingdoms 1.4 and above) - They tend to make the game AI much more coherent and far better.

[Goofy]

Dude...
That's... Sick...

For some reason I guessed that someone says that...
No, my sister is married with my sister's husband

[Nazgûl Killer]

For some reason I guessed that someone says that...
No, my sister is married with my sister's husband

Yes, but you said you're on her... Sick dude.

Can't blame me though - I simply had to

[Goofy]

Okay, visiting her then. Although now I'm back home.

[Silent Assassin]

Follow my guide and you'll be fine

So I’ve seen too many posts here on “how to deal with the Pope” now don’t get me wrong here I don’t have a problem with people asking questions on what to do with him. I will clear things up in this post.

Introduction:

In M2TW the Pope is the center of the game, even more truely when the player is a catholic faction. All your actions will lead to different events, missions, interactions with the Pope but also with your fellow catholic factions.


The Pope is Immortal:

For those who don’t know yet he is un-killable, meaning that even if you take Rome and kill the Cardinal that is the Pope at that time, another cardinal will raise and become Pope. They maybe won’t have lands to prosper on but the Pope will still be alive. Another catholic faction could give him a region.

Inquisitors:

Those pesky agents, they are assassins but only for the Pope, they have better skills and traits than yours. Be wary of them, usually they will wander around a faction from another religion, near a catholic faction that as a lot of Witches, rebel priests on their lands or if a catholic faction is excommunated.

The Pope “O” Meter:

To help us see what the Pope thinks of us CA / Sega decided to add a Pope “O” Meter that includes all catholic shields to identify them. There are crosses on top of each faction shield that determines how much the Popes likes your faction, or should I say your leader. The Pope “O” Meter also enables you to call a crusade if the Pope loves your nation enough to grant it to you. It also determines if you are excommunated no more crosses mean trouble for your nation.


Getting into more details:


Crusades:

Like I said earlier in this guide crusades can be called by the Pope, by you or any other catholic faction depending on your relationship withy the Pope. Crusades can be called against rebels, other religion or excommunated factions. If you don’t get along you will disappoint the Pope and lose points on the Pope “O” Meter

Excommunation:

Here is where everyone has problems: “Why does the Pope hate me, why does he send Inquisitors to kill my family members and agents……. And so on” well here is why:

- Don’t be aggressive with Catholic factions, even if they are the ones always sieging and attacking you. Don’t sally out against them or you will receive a global Rep hit but also a great hit on your relationship with the Pope.

- Never be the first one to draw swords, blockade ports with Catholics.

- Never destroy churches.

- Don’t use assassins against your fellow Catholics or directly against the Pope himself.

- Don’t participate to crusades.

- After a battle against a Catholic faction never kill prisoners, don’t exterminate a populace if you take their city via a crusade.

- Make alliances with faction that as another religion (Yes I know sometimes the Papal states does it) But If I may add here if you are allied with a Muslim faction for example your Global Reputation will go down the hill in the long run, more turns your alliances is kept less your relationship with your fellow Catholics and the Pope will be, even more if a crusade is called on them.

Here is what you need to do to make him like you:

- Build churches to the highest level and recruit priests.

- Kill witches and rebel priests.

- Convert the population on the lands hold by other religion factions.

- Participate to crusades.

- Ally with the Pope

- Give them gifts (a region or money each turn).

- Don’t initiate attacks on Catholics unless they are Excommunated.

Getting Reconciled:

There is a couple of ways to get reconciled:

- If the current Pope dies / assassinated or not. But I have seen exceptions now if the faction that is excommunated is at war with the faction the Cardinal was elected, the excommunated faction won’t get reconciled, so your reputation with the given winner of the Cardinal Election as an effect on that.

- If your faction leader dies, if this happens you will be reconciled.


Hints on how to play with the Pope to have him help you in your game:

Crusades:

When attacked by a fellow Catholic, let him be just defend yourself, be patient, they will be excommunated soon, when they are ask the Pope to have a crusade on them, if you have enough crosses he will accept ( before asking get ready prepare yourself a good general with at least 6 units then ask him to call it). By doing this you will gain a lot of things:

- Some that were allied with them will break their alliances, less wars for you and maybe now more friends.

- By joining the crusade you will gain in the Pope’s favour.

- Your general will gain a lot in Chivalry.

- If you capture the city, your units will gain experience and you will also win money.

- By doing this and being successful you will hurt your enemies economy and Empire at the same time.


You’re Borders:

Sometime campaigns can be a real pain by having multiple war fronts with more than one enemy. I have found useful to use the Papal State at my advantage, being a Catholic faction I was allied with them having perfect relationship. I have decided to give him a gift a gift that at first will make me loose money but in the end could save my campaign.

i.e.: I was HRE, I don’t know why but everyone didn’t like me: Venice, Poland, Hungary and Milan. They were all attacking me and from all sides 3 of them were excommunated. I sent my diplomat to make an agreement with the Papal State, offered them Vienna, Prague on the right side of the map and on the left Bern and Frankfurt on the left as I changed my capital to be Nuremberg. After that called a crusade against Venice (Venice) their capital and captured it.

You will say but you have almost given half of your Empire?? I will say yes but I can assure you one thing this helped me get back up on my feet because having a multiple war front with more than one faction is hard on your economy. I made the same amount of money but without being siege 3 regions at the time. I have taken out Venice who became my vassal and then Hungary.

The Mongols and Timurids:

I have used the tactic mentioned just above to receive help from the Papal State with those two powerhouses of destruction. Give them a couple of regions in that area and I can assure you that you will have some assistance from the Pope.

It’s all for this subject, if you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask here or in the Great Informative Thread.

Regards
Rebel6666

[SturmChurro]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Follow my guide and you'll be fine

So I’ve seen too many posts here on “how to deal with the Pope” now don’t get me wrong here I don’t have a problem with people asking questions on what to do with him. I will clear things up in this post.

Introduction:

In M2TW the Pope is the center of the game, even more truely when the player is a catholic faction. All your actions will lead to different events, missions, interactions with the Pope but also with your fellow catholic factions.


The Pope is Immortal:

For those who don’t know yet he is un-killable, meaning that even if you take Rome and kill the Cardinal that is the Pope at that time, another cardinal will raise and become Pope. They maybe won’t have lands to prosper on but the Pope will still be alive. Another catholic faction could give him a region.

Inquisitors:

Those pesky agents, they are assassins but only for the Pope, they have better skills and traits than yours. Be wary of them, usually they will wander around a faction from another religion, near a catholic faction that as a lot of Witches, rebel priests on their lands or if a catholic faction is excommunated.

The Pope “O” Meter:

To help us see what the Pope thinks of us CA / Sega decided to add a Pope “O” Meter that includes all catholic shields to identify them. There are crosses on top of each faction shield that determines how much the Popes likes your faction, or should I say your leader. The Pope “O” Meter also enables you to call a crusade if the Pope loves your nation enough to grant it to you. It also determines if you are excommunated no more crosses mean trouble for your nation.


Getting into more details:


Crusades:

Like I said earlier in this guide crusades can be called by the Pope, by you or any other catholic faction depending on your relationship withy the Pope. Crusades can be called against rebels, other religion or excommunated factions. If you don’t get along you will disappoint the Pope and lose points on the Pope “O” Meter

Excommunation:

Here is where everyone has problems: “Why does the Pope hate me, why does he send Inquisitors to kill my family members and agents……. And so on” well here is why:

- Don’t be aggressive with Catholic factions, even if they are the ones always sieging and attacking you. Don’t sally out against them or you will receive a global Rep hit but also a great hit on your relationship with the Pope.

- Never be the first one to draw swords, blockade ports with Catholics.

- Never destroy churches.

- Don’t use assassins against your fellow Catholics or directly against the Pope himself.

- Don’t participate to crusades.

- After a battle against a Catholic faction never kill prisoners, don’t exterminate a populace if you take their city via a crusade.

- Make alliances with faction that as another religion (Yes I know sometimes the Papal states does it) But If I may add here if you are allied with a Muslim faction for example your Global Reputation will go down the hill in the long run, more turns your alliances is kept less your relationship with your fellow Catholics and the Pope will be, even more if a crusade is called on them.

Here is what you need to do to make him like you:

- Build churches to the highest level and recruit priests.

- Kill witches and rebel priests.

- Convert the population on the lands hold by other religion factions.

- Participate to crusades.

- Ally with the Pope

- Give them gifts (a region or money each turn).

- Don’t initiate attacks on Catholics unless they are Excommunated.

Getting Reconciled:

There is a couple of ways to get reconciled:

- If the current Pope dies / assassinated or not. But I have seen exceptions now if the faction that is excommunated is at war with the faction the Cardinal was elected, the excommunated faction won’t get reconciled, so your reputation with the given winner of the Cardinal Election as an effect on that.

- If your faction leader dies, if this happens you will be reconciled.


Hints on how to play with the Pope to have him help you in your game:

Crusades:

When attacked by a fellow Catholic, let him be just defend yourself, be patient, they will be excommunated soon, when they are ask the Pope to have a crusade on them, if you have enough crosses he will accept ( before asking get ready prepare yourself a good general with at least 6 units then ask him to call it). By doing this you will gain a lot of things:

- Some that were allied with them will break their alliances, less wars for you and maybe now more friends.

- By joining the crusade you will gain in the Pope’s favour.

- Your general will gain a lot in Chivalry.

- If you capture the city, your units will gain experience and you will also win money.

- By doing this and being successful you will hurt your enemies economy and Empire at the same time.


You’re Borders:

Sometime campaigns can be a real pain by having multiple war fronts with more than one enemy. I have found useful to use the Papal State at my advantage, being a Catholic faction I was allied with them having perfect relationship. I have decided to give him a gift a gift that at first will make me loose money but in the end could save my campaign.

i.e.: I was HRE, I don’t know why but everyone didn’t like me: Venice, Poland, Hungary and Milan. They were all attacking me and from all sides 3 of them were excommunated. I sent my diplomat to make an agreement with the Papal State, offered them Vienna, Prague on the right side of the map and on the left Bern and Frankfurt on the left as I changed my capital to be Nuremberg. After that called a crusade against Venice (Venice) their capital and captured it.

You will say but you have almost given half of your Empire?? I will say yes but I can assure you one thing this helped me get back up on my feet because having a multiple war front with more than one faction is hard on your economy. I made the same amount of money but without being siege 3 regions at the time. I have taken out Venice who became my vassal and then Hungary.

The Mongols and Timurids:

I have used the tactic mentioned just above to receive help from the Papal State with those two powerhouses of destruction. Give them a couple of regions in that area and I can assure you that you will have some assistance from the Pope.

It’s all for this subject, if you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask here or in the Great Informative Thread.

Regards
Rebel6666

Lol, you actually thought that no matter what the pope is immortal no he is not want to know how........you just wipe out every catholic nation and guess what you will never ever see a pope again

[Silent Assassin]

Lol, you actually thought that no matter what the pope is immortal no he is not want to know how........you just wipe out every catholic nation and guess what you will never ever see a pope again

Well that is where you are wrong, the Papal State (alias the Pope) will always survive, seen it is believing it. I have seen someone here post his campaign with the Moors where you could clearly see the Pope still wandering around even if no more catholic factions were alive anymore. IMO I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere awhile ago that the Pope was scripted to be immortal.

[SturmChurro]

Well that is where you are wrong, the Papal State (alias the Pope) will always survive, seen it is believing it. I have seen someone here post his campaign with the Moors where you could clearly see the Pope still wandering around even if no more catholic factions were alive anymore. IMO I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere awhile ago that the Pope was scripted to be immortal.

Then why when I killed every catholic nation did I never see a pope walking around all you have to do is stop the making of catholic priests.

[Goofy]

@UCMENOMOR:
Again, when people say that the Pope is immortal, they mean the Papal States as a faction, not the person (Pope) himself.
The Pope is killable in a battle, but Papal States never fall. And the Papacy can be made destroyable through editing descr_sm_factions.txt. Although I'm not sure how, but I believe that I know it...

[SturmChurro]

@UCMENOMOR:
Again, when people say that the Pope is immortal, they mean the Papal States as a faction, not the person (Pope) himself.
The Pope is killable in a battle, but Papal States never fall. And the Papacy can be made destroyable through editing descr_sm_factions.txt. Although I'm not sure how, but I believe that I know it...

Yes, I know that the Papal states is not destroyable I KNOW such as in an earlier post I said I had wiped out every single catholic faction, and it said the papal seat remains empty or something like that so yes I know the faction itself is immortal