View Poll Results: Who will be President of Europe?

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  • Tony Blair

    45 71.43%
  • Jean-Claude Juncker

    11 17.46%
  • Bertie Ahern

    1 1.59%
  • Anders Fogh Rasmussen

    6 9.52%
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Thread: President, of precisely what?

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  1. #1
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default President, of precisely what?

    BBC

    President, of precisely what?
    Imagine drafting a controversial proposal. Among its key recommendations is a new job. With a mixture of persuasion and muscle the proposal is accepted. The job has an attractive title but it turns out there is little agreement over its precise role. So only after the signature pens have been put to paper do the real discussions begin as to how the job will be defined.
    The job spec, as laid out in the treaty, is spare on detail. The president of the council shall "chair it and drive forward its work". He/she "shall endeavour to facilitate cohesion and consensus within the EC".
    It's all very bland, and on that basis you would not expect a stack of applications.

    It sounds like a post for a bureaucratic ringmaster.

    But then comes something a little more enticing and intriguing:

    "The president of the EC shall... ensure the external representation of the union on issues concerning its common and security policy."


    That last sentence has been taken to define the post. The president will be the face of the European Union. He/she will raise its profile around the world. It used to be
    said, apocryphally, that the president of the United States never knew who to call in Europe. Now he will. Europe would no longer be just a place "to fly over". It will have a president.
    The other big job to be filled is the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security. He/she will be the global trouble-shooter. There are some who want this post to have more power than the president. It could well be that the EU "foreign minister" will, in reality, be the face of the union on the international stage.
    Well, hail to our new masters, since it seems for now at least, until we find a way to fight back, that we have no choice and a President, Foreign minister, home office ect will all be 'appointed' for the 'new EU' by the end of the year. They could quite possibly even be selected for the roles, giving us a 'President er...elect?' by the end of the month when the 'EU' convenes.

    So, not that anyone in joe public has a say that is, who would you like to be the 'President of Europe'.
    Failing that, who do you think will be appointed as 'President of Europe'.

    Tony Blair
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The former British Prime Minister Tony Blair has also been mentioned. Blair was one of the architects of a permanent president[19] and has been touted for the job as far back as 2002, before the signing of the constitution. Rumours of his appointment have re-emerged since his resignation as Prime Minister, and from British politics, in 2007.[1][20][21]
    Gordon Brown, Blair's successor as British Prime Minister, expressed his belief that Blair would make an excellent President.[22] However, he noted it was premature to discuss candidates before the treaty was approved.[19]
    In addition, Tony Blair's nomination may be opposed by small states, who believe the large states have enough of their people at the top. Diplomats and leading politicians in a number of states are opposing him.[23] In the European Parliament, Blair faces opposition from the Socialists and some Christian Democrats[24] who have formed a cross-party group against his candidacy.[23] In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel is considered to be opposed to the candidacy, citing her words that the Council President should be "a man of balance"[25] In April 2008, France, Germany and the United Kingdom made a deal that they would not back a candidate opposed by any one of them. Due to opposition from Germany, Blair may be ruled out.[22]
    In France, Blair faces opposition from the French Socialist Party,[26] French conservative elder statesmen Valéry Giscard d'Estaing[27] and Édouard Balladur.[28] Other commentators interpreted Sarkozy's public support for Blair as a diversion tactic: according to them, Blair "stands no chance"[29] of being appointed and his failure would have the effect of disqualifying him for other top EU jobs, too.[29][30][31]
    A spokesman for Tony Blair has not ruled out Blair accepting the post, saying he was concentrating on his current role in the Middle East[32] Some believe he is unlikely to take the position as it comes with few powers.[19] On 12 January 2008 Blair was invited to attend a rally for Sarkozy's party, the Union for a Popular Movement. There he appeared, according to some commentators, to launch a bid for the Presidency.[26]
    Europe is not a question of left or right, but a question of the future or the past, of strength or weakness ... Terrorism, security, immigration, organised crime, energy, the environment, science, biotechnology and higher education. In all these areas, and others, we are much stronger and able to deliver what our citizens expect from us as individual nations if we are part of a strong and united Europe.
    —Tony Blair at January 2008 UMP rally, [26]
    The following month it was reported that Blair was warming to the idea, so long as the job was not to be dominated by chairing meetings and brokering deals, as formally outlined by the treaty.[19] Reports also said that Blair would take the job only if "it comes with real powers to intervene in defence and trade affairs"[33] Under the treaties, these areas are the prerogatives of the European Commission, Council and High Representative.
    Reports from early May indicated that Blair had lost the support of Sarkozy, as well, thus most likely barring him from getting the post[34] even though, in a July 2008 poll, he is the candidate most supported by European businesses to take the role.[35]
    However, it was reported early February 2009 that "French leader Nicolas Sarkozy is determined to help him win the post". Alain Minc, a member of Sarkozy's inner circle, said that "we cannot afford not to have Tony Blair, who will be a strong figurehead, is entirely respected around the world and will be a commanding leader at the helm of Europe."[36]


    Jean-Claude Juncker
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    A second oft-mentioned name for the first full-time President is the current Prime Minister of Luxembourg, Jean-Claude Juncker.[29][30] Supporters see Juncker as experienced in EU negotiations and committed to European integration, and a guarantor for small member states.
    Juncker is seen as a key mediator in the agreement over the Treaty of Maastricht, and the main author of its parts on the euro.[37] He is also credited with saving the agreement on the Stability and Growth Pact.[37][38] In 2004, he became the permanent President of the Eurogroup, the group of finance ministers of the member states in the Eurozone.
    During the drafting of the failed European Constitution, Juncker has been a leading opponent of the creation of a strong full-time Council President, and was thus instrumental in "massively clipping the wings"[39] of the post relative to the original plans of the "ABC-camp" (Aznar, Blair, Chirac[40]). He was concerned that a Parliament-independent Council President would usurp the powers of the Parliament-dependent Commission President.[39] Small EU member states also saw the new post as a way for the large members to gain power at their expense.[40][41] To allay these fears, before the failure of the Constitution in French and Dutch referendums, Mr. Juncker has been intensely lobbied to accept the job, but he insisted to fulfill the promise he just made to his voters in Luxembourg to serve another full term.[38]
    The European Council agreed on the final draft of the successor of the failed Constitution, the Reform Treaty, on 19 October 2007. The same day, French President Nicolas Sarkozy brought up Juncker's name again in public.[17] Juncker would reportedly enjoy the support of many national governments,[25] as well as the Christian Democrats and Martin Schulz, the faction leader of the Socialists in the European Parliament.[42] However, Mr. Juncker himself didn't want to decide on candidacy early.[42]
    French President Sarkozy's open endorsement of Blair in January 2008 led some politicians to come out with their endorsement for Juncker. For the German part of the European People's Party faction, MEP Werner Langen (EVP-ED/CDU) stated a lack of "European impulses" from Blair, and named Juncker as one of two possibilities.[43] Marielle de Sarnez (MoDem), vice-chair of ALDE, also endorsed him.[44]
    Apart from Sarkozy, no members of national governments came out with clear endorsements in public. However, Juncker has reportedly a wider support than Blair[45].[46][47] He is reportedly favoured by German chancellor Angela Merkel,[48] and French media consider as factor that Juncker is a "germanophile".[30] On 24 January 2008, it was announced that Juncker will receive the German Citizens' Order of Merit,[49] the award of a private foundation,[50] but at the award ceremony on 19 February 2008, Chancellor Merkel held the laudation herself.[51] The laudation has been interpreted as implicit but open endorsement.[52]
    Some commentators even assume that Juncker is French President Sarkozy's real choice, too, and Blair is only a diversion tactic.[30][31] On 12 February 2008, junior French minister for European affairs Jean-Pierre Jouyet declared that the first Council President must come from the Eurozone and must be an "authentic European" who knows the workings of EU institutions, which has been interpreted as a circumscription of Juncker.[47]
    Possible points against Juncker's candidacy are his potential conflict with European Commission leader Barroso, his health, and that he may face opposition from more Eurosceptic member state governments. Those favouring a strong and charismatic Council President also consider Juncker to be drab and not well known. There is also speculation that the two highest-profile candidates in the race, Juncker and Blair cancel each other out.


    Other candidates
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Aside from Blair and Juncker, there have been other suggestions for candidates including: former Prime Minister of Finland Paavo Lipponen[54], former Taoiseach of Ireland Bertie Ahern[55], former President of Poland Aleksander Kwaśniewski, former President of the Czech Republic Václav Havel[56], former President of Finland Martti Ahtisaari[57], former Chancellor of Austria Wolfgang Schüssel,[43] former Prime Minister of Bulgaria Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha[58][59] and Swedish Foreign Minister[60] Italian right-wing politician Gianfranco Fini, leader of Alleanza Nazionale, endorsed former Prime Minister of Spain José María Aznar.[61] Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende Carl Bildt.

    European Commission President José Manuel Barroso may also be a candidate. Although now to be seeking a second term leading the Commission, he may try for the Council if he believed the job was to be bigger and better.[62][63]
    In September 2009, former Labour MEP and President of the Development and Co-operation Committee of the European Parliament, Michael McGowan, nominated Conservative politician Chris Patten. "His experience as a UK Government Minister, as European Commissioner for External Affairs with responsibility for international development, and the last Governor of Hong Kong would make him a serious candidate. The appointment of Chris Patten as the first President of the European Union would be good for Britain, good for Europe and good for the developing world. It would also signal a determination that Britain intends to play a greater part at the heart of Europe."[64]
    Commission Vice-President Margot Wallström has criticised the fact no women have been proposed, a symptom she claims is due to the behind the scenes selection process going already which is dominated by "old men". She dismisses the absence of female candidates being due to competence, claiming that former Irish President Mary Robinson, Finnish President Tarja Halonen and former Commissioner and MEP Emma Bonino are all sound candidates. Wallström claims she is not herself interested in any more high profile jobs.


    I put 4 of the runners they are talking about up there, but if yours aint listed, feel free to post your preffered candidate, or just who you think will get the job.
    Last edited by bigfootedfred; October 19, 2009 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Noam Chomsky :p not going to happen tho

  3. #3
    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    Noam Chomsky :p not going to happen tho
    My choice wasn't even on the list: Wilders!

  4. #4

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgamer View Post
    My choice wasn't even on the list: Wilders!

    I thought you claimed Facism was a leftist ideology?, Or do you finally admit that it is ultra-right, and the neocons vision of the future of the world?

  5. #5
    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    I thought you claimed Facism was a leftist ideology?, Or do you finally admit that it is ultra-right, and the neocons vision of the future of the world?
    Do you neocoms not recognize sarcasm, when you see it?

  6. #6

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgamer View Post
    Do you neocoms not recognize sarcasm, when you see it?

    I am as much a NeoCom as NeoCons are Neo-facist, which leaves you in a state, really, admit Neoconservatism is the new face of an old evil, or stop using your made up terms for people.
    Last edited by justicar5; November 01, 2009 at 11:14 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    The only choice satisfying the English would be Sir Alex Ferguson, however I'd support Gordon Brown.

    I guess however it will be Teflon Tony or Sarkozy's son.

    Srsly, we need elections...

    EDIT: Juncker is alright.
    Last edited by Thorn777; October 19, 2009 at 05:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  8. #8
    Yorkshireman's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    The only choice satisfying the English would be Sir Alex Ferguson
    I doubt it, he's Scottish.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshireman View Post
    I doubt it, he's Scottish.
    I know, Its hard to overhear that. Maybe he's hated across England, he's respected across England as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  10. #10
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    I'm hoping it will be the current Dutch prime minister, Jan Peter Balkenende

    He's officially not a candidate, but unofficially he is actually quite likely to get the job as probably none of the larger countries will grant it to each other. (ruling out any British, German of French candidate)

    I'm hoping he will get it because he's a terrible prime minister and this would be a great way to get rid of him.

    But more likely still, it will be someone nobody has ever heard of before.
    That's how international politics works.

    I think it's funny that the Brits think their past War Monger in Chief makes a chance.
    Although a racist war criminal would be a fitting face for the EU IMO, I think it's extremely unlikely that France and Germany would support him.
    Last edited by Erik; October 19, 2009 at 06:10 PM.



  11. #11
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn
    Sir Alex Ferguson
    Hmm, no, most people hate him cos they hate man united.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik
    I think it's funny that the Brits think their past War Monger in Chief makes a chance.
    Although a racist war criminal would be a fitting face for the EU IMO, I think it's extremely unlikely that France and Germany would support him.
    English is a funny language, what you want there is "their past War Monger in Chief stands a chance.

    I would have thought so too, but Sarkosy threw his support behind Blair and ive hearing merkel is being brought on board by ensuring lots of cosy powerful positions for german officials.

    At the EU summit, the end of the month, they will be hammering out who gets what slice of the pie, doing deals on who gets what position ect ect...with no consultation or consent of the people of the EU of course.

    Edit: Jaketh, no, we dont vote for the President, he is appointed.
    Last edited by Atterdag; October 20, 2009 at 04:55 AM. Reason: spammy stuff removed.

  12. #12

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfootedfred View Post



    English is a funny language, what you want there is "their past War Monger in Chief stands a chance.

    I would have thought so too, but Sarkosy threw his support behind Blair and ive hearing merkel is being brought on board by ensuring lots of cosy powerful positions for german officials.

    At the EU summit, the end of the month, they will be hammering out who gets what slice of the pie, doing deals on who gets what position ect ect...with no consultation or consent of the people of the EU of course.

    Edit: Jaketh, no, we dont vote for the President, he is appointed.
    Its funny actually, Id be surprised if the EU doesnt want to have a scary face to increase their "world influence"
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  13. #13

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    tony blair , hes the only canidate that is actually well known outside of the european parliment..
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  14. #14

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Its not exactly a new job, the current EU Presidency rotates between the national governments every 6 months and is currently held the Swedish Government. The current "EU President" is actually this Swedish Minister.

    Lisbon doesn't give the EU Presidency any new powers, or any powers at all really. The President gets to sign legislation, but has no veto power. The only real power, is the ability to call meetings of the EU Council (i.e. the 27 heads of state), but the Council will still only operate on consensus voting. But Lisbon does call for the president to be elected by the 27 heads of state to serve a 2.5 year term, with the possiblity of a single re-election (5 years max). So whoever is elected will be the "face" of the EU unlike the current 6 month system.


    The first EU president will really set the precedent for what the office will be. However, just like the new Foriegn Minister, the President can only represent common EU policies, in which there is unanamimous agreement between the 27 nations, so their won't be much clout in the new positions to make international agreements.
    Last edited by Sphere; October 19, 2009 at 07:33 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Tony, hes was the prime of Brit, so what is stopping him?

  16. #16

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    tony blair cant afford a visit to the dentist, how is he supposed to become the president of the eu?

  17. #17

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sipahizade View Post
    tony blair cant afford a visit to the dentist, how is he supposed to become the president of the eu?
    I actually had the same thought.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  18. #18
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    I don't say I really care who will become President of the Council of Europe, considering their powers are basically none.

  19. #19

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    The new Presidents powers are vague so whoever gets the job basically defines the position.
    "If I have done any noble action, that is a sufficient memorial; if I have done nothing noble, all the statues in the world will not preserve my memory."
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  20. #20

    Default Re: President, of precisely what?

    The poll should have been entitled, "Who Should Be President of Europe?".

    Obviously it seems like Tony Blair is the most popular, but who should be is Rasmussen.
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