What is up with the Roman stats?

**Sargon_of_Akkad** · October 17, 2009, 04:01 PM

Seriously...what? Playing as Carthage, I found myself surrounding Roman units (Hastati, Principes and Triarii) with Libyan spearmen, having them completely encircled or having three flanks covered and cavalry charging them from the rear, after killing their general...and they still aren't breaking.

After a few minutes of them being up to the eyeballs in my men, my troops proceed to break and run like little girls that weren't previously kicking arse, and I lose.

Now, I'm sure any students of history here will be aware that when this happened historically, the encircled group lost, practically without exception.

Also, the Romans weren't superhuman arse-beaters (triarii having 30+ defence? Are you kidding me?), they were really more persistent than anything else. They weren't stronger, they were more willing. This mod seems to have gone both ways, giving the Romans unfairly high stats (which I find to be the problem) as well as insanely high morale (which they may well have had).

So I'm facing basically unbreakable, unkillable units with my quivering lady-boys. Are there any submods that tone the Romans down just a little bit?

Also: Your average Roman soldier is harder than Spartan Royal Guards? Are you kidding me??

**Grimbold** · October 17, 2009, 05:13 PM

Only triarii are annoying.

**DimeBagHo** · October 17, 2009, 10:20 PM

What difficulty are you playing on?

**Sargon_of_Akkad** · October 18, 2009, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by DimeBagHo

What difficulty are you playing on?

Vh/Vh...but noone else (for example, the Macedonians) are as invulnerable by a mile.

**DimeBagHo** · October 18, 2009, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Sargon_of_Akkad

Vh/Vh...

In XGM vh really is very hard (some campaigns are impossible). I recommend playing on H/H.

**Total Roach** · October 18, 2009, 06:00 AM

vh/vh

might need one these, good luck with the rest of your campaign, guess you might need some of it.

**gingerbill** · October 18, 2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sargon_of_Akkad

Vh/Vh...but noone else (for example, the Macedonians) are as invulnerable by a mile.

you can't really moan if your playing on VH/VH , of course there troops will be better . I fought many battles with rome as carthage on H/H , never found them OP at all , i didn't notice them to be more powerful than any other main faction and i fought a silly amount of battle's against them .

**Hakomar** · October 17, 2009, 10:34 PM

Whenever I face the Romans quite early in the game, they manage to have silver chevrons. All they have done is take Sicily, Corsica Sardinia and the south Italy, and manage to support more than 6 full stacks of these super-xp men with little vigiles while having an excellent economy.

**Magmaniac** · October 18, 2009, 02:18 AM

Yeah, roman units are OP a bit. It makes me not want to play as them because it would be too easy.

**Total Roach** · October 18, 2009, 02:33 AM

Playing as the Romans is different to playing against them. The AI gets many bonuses which they human player does not, and it certainly is no picnic in my experience. What wins the day is tactics, the Romans are certainly beatable with any of the factions I have played so far and fought them, Carthage, GCS and Macedon.

P.S. I use 1HP system, I wonder if that makes a difference.

**Sargon_of_Akkad** · October 18, 2009, 02:50 AM

Friend, how much more tactical can you get than surrounding them and attacking on all fronts simultaneously?

**Boriak** · October 18, 2009, 03:17 AM

I'm fighting the Romans with Macedonians now.

After a few initial losses with my infantry I began to use tons of missile troops. Archers with fire arrows work fine so far but slingers surprised me most. Put slingers in front of your main line, skirmishing on so they back away when the time comes. Or put skirmishing to off and you can absorb the pila shower with them instead of your heavy infantry. Putting a lot of peltasts behind your main line is also good.

With Macedonians I use about 4 units of phalangites and 3 of heavy infantry (hoplites) to support the flanks because the Romans like to go for the flanks. The rest is missile troops. I use minimal cavalry as the Romans don't use much cavalry themselves and light greek cavalry is more or less useless against the Romans. When they rout, I can chase them with my general and my skirmishers (fast moving).

Of course, I play on medium difficulty.

**gingerbill** · October 18, 2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Magmaniac

Yeah, roman units are OP a bit. It makes me not want to play as them because it would be too easy.

I think you would be surprised if you played the romans on H/H or higher , it's no cake walk like it used to be . I didnt find them any easier (and harder than some) to play than any other faction . I actually found it harder than most as i didnt work well with there troops.

**TM Is Back** · October 18, 2009, 06:38 AM

Romans have one weakness: They are vulnerable to javelins.

**Scutarii** · October 18, 2009, 11:06 PM

VH means already strong Roman troops (you playing with AI bonuses on too? I think Rome should get a chevron boost if yes) refuse to rout and will hack your poor Libyans to pieces (even on medium they can best your libyan heavies easily).

You'll need to spam Numidians to beat them with few casualties. And even then I managed to somehow lose a battle where my half stack of numidians reduced the enemy Roman fullstack by 50%, and then the infantry core of my army (8 units or so) was hacked to pieces by the remains of the Roman army. I've always brought heavy cav to my battles against Rome from then on.

**Balikedes** · October 21, 2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Scutarii

VH means already strong Roman troops (you playing with AI bonuses on too? I think Rome should get a chevron boost if yes) refuse to rout and will hack your poor Libyans to pieces (even on medium they can best your libyan heavies easily).

You'll need to spam Numidians to beat them with few casualties. And even then I managed to somehow lose a battle where my half stack of numidians reduced the enemy Roman fullstack by 50%, and then the infantry core of my army (8 units or so) was hacked to pieces by the remains of the Roman army. I've always brought heavy cav to my battles against Rome from then on.

Heed this man's words...

I consider myself a vet of XGM and have a really tough time against the Romans on VH...I would suggest playing H/H. I'm currently fighting the Romans in Italy with the Macs and haven't lost yet, but every other victory is extremely Pyrrhic.
A mix of Heavy Cav and skirmish cav works well for me.

**TM Is Back** · October 21, 2009, 02:04 PM

Just hammer and anvil them, always always. And with cavalry. And don't forget the javelins

**AchillesXX** · October 21, 2009, 08:24 PM

I tried a VH/VH Campaign as the Carthaginians, and I too found it to be difficult. IF I managed to beat a Roman Army I still had ridiculous amounts of casualties. I would suggest going H/H unless you want to do a jav cav spam. Carthage already has some of the weakest troops in the game (along with the Ptolemies and Saba), so when you give the already far superior Romans a +7 attack/morale bonus, well, you are up a creek.

On the bright side, I played a VH/VH Greek campaign, and the Romans were very beatable. I have not tried a VH/VH barbarian campaign, but I would bet that the Germans could beat the Romans on that level too - don't know about the Guals and Iberians though.

**Scutarii** · October 21, 2009, 10:51 PM

The German roster is great for taking down Rome, Gaul's is pretty good too. And they're within early striking distance so you can take them down before they get too big. I've taken down Rome with Germania on vh/vh with limited use of lvl. 3 units. axemen + light cav do the trick nicely. I try not to blitz like that anymore though, its better to let Rome get up and conquering and then take them down a notch with a far bloodier war.