Novgorod Faction

[Darviathar]

I posted this in one of the threads in the sub mod section, but thought I'd thought I'd put it here as well, since I am just wondering what others think, certainly not "calling anyone out"!

I have started my initial game of 4.1, having last played 3.8 using a (now removed) sub mod that substituted the Timurids for Wales. I tend to play mostly eastern factions (Byzantium, Antioch, Turks), so removing Wales really didn't impact my game at all. Without the possibility to return the Timurids (I am lucky if I can figure out how to change simple text files, much less something complicated...) Wales is now back in my game. I cannot help but wonder if Novgorod would be a better addition. I realize and support the guideline that only factions present in MTW2 or the Kingdoms mod be used, thus eliminating the possibility of Aragon, Georgia, Cilician Armenia, Serbia, etc. Novgorod is obviously present in the Teutonic campaign, just as Wales is present in the Britannian one.

My logic for this follows:

1. The British Isles are crowded enough already. The many "minor" settlements from the Britannia campaign that made Wales a viable faction simply aren't present in the grand campaign game due to the limitation on regions.

2. There aren't very many Orthodox factions in the game...Byzantium and Kievan Rus. Novgorod would help balance things out.

3. The Baltic Sea area and particuarly the regions of Northern Russia have a lot of "room for action". Novgorad would definitely provide some excitement to the region with the pagan lithuanians, catholic Teutons and Poles, and possible even the Mongols.

4. The Mongols...I believe might benefit from the inclusion of an additional Russian faction. In nearly every one of my games, they overrun Kiev fairly early on, as well as the Crimea and all of the "remote eastern provinces". They have yet to capture Novgorod and Northern Russia though. What if they didn't feel "compelled" to do so, but continued past Kiev into Poland and Hungary as they did historically?

Antioch seemed to be the "odd man out" with the introduction of the Aztech faction. I certainly am not in favor of removing Antioch from the game. The "Byzantine/Turkish/Antioch" triangle in the Asia Minor area is one of the main reasons I play this mod over others. Removing a Catholic faction from the region would make it far less interesting. Simply adding Antioch's current holdings to the Jerusalem faction for a united "crusader kingdom" hasn't worked so well in other mods, as the KOJ invariably gets into major war with Egypt immediately, allowing the Turks to focus all their attentions on the beleaguered Byzantines, who are typically under attack from Venice, Sicily and Hungary already. Remember that the Turkish faction represented in the time frame of our mod is the Seljuk Turks, not the later Ottomans who overran the entire east. Both the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum (the Iconium area) and the Great Seljuk Sultanate (Baghdad based) are represented by the single "Turk" faction. Another reason to keep Antioch is that (so far in my games) the newly-converted-to Islam Mongols have not shown any interest in attacking their "new spiritual brothers" the Turks through Georgia and Armenia, as the formerly pagan Mongols always seemed to do.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Hey buddy, look at this thread. I'm adding Novgorod (actually working in custom battles) and the cool thing is that I don't have to remove anyone so everybody's happy! Also going to add the Apache to the mod.

[Dave Scarface]

Okay, there seems to be a lot of discussion lately around the forum about adding factions or removing some from the Grand Campaign. So let me clear this up, and share my vision for KGCM with you. As many of you know I am working on a new mod which will take KGCM into the 15th century and beyond. I am also putting the final touches to KGCM patch 4.2 which I will release shortly. For patch 4.2 I have already decided to put Antioch back in to the default playable factions list because this is the era of the Crusades. The Aztecs will be put back to non playable (but can easily be changed). In my new mod KGCM Age of Discovery the Aztecs will feature as one of the playable factions however.

Now I do not agree with the idea of adding Novgorod into KGCM patch 4.2 at 1180 AD. Its fine as it is now with Kievan Rus fighting off the Mongols in this campaign. Add another Orthodox faction into this mix and the Mongols will never have the same impact. Now in KGCM Age of Discovery I have removed Russia already and added Republic of Novgorod and Grand Duchy of Moscow. This suits the time perfectly and so does adding the Timurids back in and making them playable at 1400 AD (which I've done already). So my idea is to have some factions playable in the old mod like Norway, Jerusalem and Antioch. And have different factions playable in my new mod. Added so far are Novgorod, Kalmar Union, Timurids, Grand Duchy of Moscow, Aragon, and Kingdom of Naples.

Now why would I remove Wales from KGCM 4.2 when they are such a popular addition? in exchange for one of these factions above which are already included in my new mod? I want my old mod and new mod to be different campaigns with different factions on offer. I am not going to start mixing them in both just to please a few people.

thanks,
Dave