The decline and fall of the Roman empire was immortalized and masterly presented by Edward Gibbon. Is there an equivalent modern work for the Greek/Hellenistic era? Does Greek history have a Gibbon?
Miles
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
You mean from the Enlightenment era? Or something modernly written?
I'm asking because you'd be tough out of luck to find something with the same style and sweep of history in the modern day.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than
the animating contest for freedom, go
home from us in peace. We seek not
your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
down and lick the hand that feeds you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
Miles
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Probably nothing. I don't mean to compare him to Gibbon per se, but if you want to get the heroic feeling of hoplites, nothing is better than the 2-3 works by Victor Davis Hanson. Hellenistic history, in an epic sense, is probably best in Peter Green's 'From Alexander to Actium' (though he hates the Romans, so not too objective about them).
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than
the animating contest for freedom, go
home from us in peace. We seek not
your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
down and lick the hand that feeds you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
Miles
Arch-Duffer-In-Exile
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Gibbon, as in boring, outdated and often quite wrong?
No, I don't think so
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Well, if that's what his looking for I can point out some Greek elementary school textbooks.Originally Posted by Lance-Corporal Jones
Gibbon, as in boring, outdated and often quite wrong?
No, I don't think so
Semper Gumby
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
In John Keegan's book A History of Warfare he fully explores Hoplite tactics, why they evolved in Greece, and supplies a nice timeline of Greek battle. Its an excellent read, and the chapter of two on Greece is really well put together.
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
None of these are epic however; not Keegan's at least, insofar as I know of it.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than
the animating contest for freedom, go
home from us in peace. We seek not
your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
down and lick the hand that feeds you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
Semper Gumby
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Well, I don't think that such an epic exists so I am trying to work with what we are given.
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
A masterful fantasy tale indeed.
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
That's what I'm saying though, Hanson does well from the perspective of an epic and a moral angle (although his work is spread across a few works, instead of a single one).
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than
the animating contest for freedom, go
home from us in peace. We seek not
your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
down and lick the hand that feeds you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
hoi polloi
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
It's it's difficult to imagine a similar epic - In Rome you have the success story (and the failure story) from tiny city state to Europe wide empire to collapse in a span of centuries. No one else not Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Syracuse, Macedonia (or is bastard successors), nor Gaul Carthage or Parthia managed the same... so any epic history would necessarily be much smaller in scale, place and time.
Last edited by conon394; December 12, 2009 at 10:35 AM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Protector Domesticus
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Why would you want to read Gibbon? Either buy a scholarly history book or a novel, don't get a book that tries to be both and fails miserably. Go for either accuracy or fiction, don't get one that tries to be both.
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Have you read Gibbon even once? It is a masterpiece of English language. So no need to pile on something that no other historian has written about as well.
Tat's kind of where I disagree; not on the issue of scale obviously, but on the issue of tremendous epic feeling. That's what Hanson succeeds in conveying so well, when he paints the virtuous citizen farmer hoplite, whose analogies to Cincinnatus are more than accidental. I agree that imperial (i.e. hellenistic) Greek history is far less admirable and spectacular, but the civic/republican history and spirit are tremendous. I'm sure some Victorians have written a history with that in mind, but I don't know of any, so Hanson remains the only title I can recommend from that angle. Plus his Who Killed Homer is untoppable.
Last edited by SigniferOne; December 11, 2009 at 10:34 PM.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than
the animating contest for freedom, go
home from us in peace. We seek not
your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
down and lick the hand that feeds you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
..
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than
the animating contest for freedom, go
home from us in peace. We seek not
your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
down and lick the hand that feeds you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
Domesticus
Re: Greek equivalent of Gibbon?
Again what Conon said. Damn, you beat me to cocluding the thread twice in a single day! But I want to add a few things. The fall of the Greek world couldn't not have been specacular within the confines of romanticism because of two factorsDoes Greek history have a Gibbon?
1. the Romans were there to take up the standard of the West and allow civilisation to keep thriving afterwards.
2. there are no intense religious clashes, groundbreaking barbarian invasions and fascinating social tranformations accompanying its fall
In short, the fall of Rome can be viewed as the twillight of the old world and thus is far more captivating and intriguing than fall of the classical city-states or the hellenistic kingdoms and confederations. So no Gibbon
Last edited by Timoleon of Korinthos; December 12, 2009 at 09:54 AM.
"Blessed is he who learns how to engage in inquiry, with no impulse to hurt his countrymen or to pursue wrongful actions, but perceives the order of the immortal and ageless nature, how it is structured."
Euripides
"This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which avails us nothing and which man should not wish to learn."
Augustine
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