Which European faction do YOU think has the best all-round units?

[SturmChurro]

I think France, but France is my favorite so..............

[SturmChurro]

I think France, but France is my favorite so..............

sorry re wrote it on accident

[SirDestroyer]

England. Archer spam FTW!

[{GrailKnight}]

Russia.

[Hupsel]

Russia.

As Russia lacks any heavy infantery able to counter the western knights, potent crossbows and strong chargers its quite impossible to list them as the faction with the best all-round units.

France has for sure the most balanced units, they got it all. They have: strong (dismounted)knights, Aventuriers, Scots Guard, Mounted Longbowmen, Lancers and Sergeant spearmen.

[SturmChurro]

As Russia lacks any heavy infantery able to counter the western knights, potent crossbows and strong chargers its quite impossible to list them as the faction with the best all-round units.

France has for sure the most balanced units, they got it all. They have: strong (dismounted)knights, Aventuriers, Scots Guard, Mounted Longbowmen, Lancers and Sergeant spearmen.

Yeah I know

[HeroSK]

Holy Roman Empire. They have everything, I mean absolutely everything from heaviest foot and mounted knight to mounted crossbows and plus great gunpowder units and artillery.

[{GrailKnight}]

As Russia lacks any heavy infantery able to counter the western knights, potent crossbows and strong chargers its quite impossible to list them as the faction with the best all-round units.

France has for sure the most balanced units, they got it all. They have: strong (dismounted)knights, Aventuriers, Scots Guard, Mounted Longbowmen, Lancers and Sergeant spearmen.

Russia does have heavy inf. able to counter western knights, their crossbow militia are the same as regular crossbows, they have the best cavalry in the game and the best horse archer selection in the game, they are pretty much the best cav power in the game overall. I have played Russia online many times, they are an excellent faction, their Tsar's Guard can take on any cav and win regardless if they are strong chargers, (This is all experience from online play, so it is more valid than experience with A.I) PLUS they have the 2nd best Muskateers in the game, and they have one of the best artillery pieces (basiliks), i know for a fact Russia is one of the best units, and i have been able to beat many clanplayers with Russia in any period vs any other faction, so they definetley deserve to be listed in this category. You say France has it all? Yet they don't have muskets, which is essential for later period, and Russia has them beat in cav so France can and will get quite easily beaten by Russia, and many other factions such as the Byzantines, Denmark, Spain, Portugual and Mongols or Timurids as well as Venice.

[Old_Scratch]

Technically Russia does have a very powerful multiplayer roster, but I find that their units run a little expensive, especially their infantry and muskets. Their muskets are good, but they are so expensive I find that it's better to use regular muskets from a European faction and use pikes to back them up, a super cheap combo that Russia lacks. Big money all period games though Russia and Turkey are king, but a standard 10k game their armies tend to be a little sparse or populated mostly by weak units and a few good ones.

I actually prefer to play Russia in the early period since Druzina are killer cav for early. Cheap and the same stats as a huscarl except they also have a decent charge.

Anyway, muskets aren't the end all deciding factor in late and all period multiplayer games either. I play France more than any musket faction in late/all games and have continuous success. If it's an art game the serpentine is king, considerably cheaper than basilisk but with the same range and I think a little more accurate. Even without art though, France has a powerful roster and the only thing it's missing really is muskets.

Scotland is also a surprisingly good faction for beating muskets. Let them shoot into your peasant archers as they advance and run smart charges with upgraded borderhorse. Muskets need to wheel at you to fire so you'll be pretty safe on the flanks. If they do wheel, just infantry charge, by the time they wheel back it will be too late. If they don't wheel, you can neutralize all of your opponents muskets in a matter of seconds with a little light cav micro, even when they are protected by pikes. And heavy cav is far too slow to stop border horse. I guess this can go for any non-musket faction though when facing muskets.

The easiest way to beat light cav micro is mix some peasant xbows in your army that will cover the muskets so they don't have to wheel and fire, but nobody ever does this.

[Hupsel]

Russia does have heavy inf. able to counter western knights, their crossbow militia are the same as regular crossbows, they have the best cavalry in the game and the best horse archer selection in the game, they are pretty much the best cav power in the game overall. I have played Russia online many times, they are an excellent faction, their Tsar's Guard can take on any cav and win regardless if they are strong chargers, (This is all experience from online play, so it is more valid than experience with A.I) PLUS they have the 2nd best Muskateers in the game, and they have one of the best artillery pieces (basiliks), i know for a fact Russia is one of the best units, and i have been able to beat many clanplayers with Russia in any period vs any other faction, so they definetley deserve to be listed in this category. You say France has it all? Yet they don't have muskets, which is essential for later period, and Russia has them beat in cav so France can and will get quite easily beaten by Russia, and many other factions such as the Byzantines, Denmark, Spain, Portugual and Mongols or Timurids as well as Venice.

Russia is my favorite faction actually. I just dont think they have a balanced unit roster. Dism. Boyars/Druzinhas get pwned by western knights, Berendiche axemen are good shock troops but they also get whiped out by anthing that carries a heavy plate and a shield. Their cavalary is indeed supreme, as are their musketeers however we're ralking about balanced unit rosters. Oh also their crossbows suck compared to the pavise crossbows half of the other factions has acces too.

So basicly Russia fully depends on its gunpowder, cavalry and foot archers which excludes 2 other unit types which gives them a rather unbalanced unit roster unlike France, HRE or Spain who only have 1 lesser unit type in their armies.

Offtopic, I always thought Russia had the best gunners in the game, you just said 2nd best so which faction does have the best?

[G-Megas-Doux]

Off topic. Janissary Musketeers I think are the best in the game.

[{GrailKnight}]

Russia is my favorite faction actually. I just dont think they have a balanced unit roster. Dism. Boyars/Druzinhas get pwned by western knights, Berendiche axemen are good shock troops but they also get whiped out by anthing that carries a heavy plate and a shield. Their cavalary is indeed supreme, as are their musketeers however we're ralking about balanced unit rosters. Oh also their crossbows suck compared to the pavise crossbows half of the other factions has acces too.

So basicly Russia fully depends on its gunpowder, cavalry and foot archers which excludes 2 other unit types which gives them a rather unbalanced unit roster unlike France, HRE or Spain who only have 1 lesser unit type in their armies.

Offtopic, I always thought Russia had the best gunners in the game, you just said 2nd best so which faction does have the best?

The turks, they have the elite Janissary Muskateers, who have a slightly higher defence than the Russian Cossack Muskateers their missle attack is the same, but the russian dism. druzhina/boyars do not get pwned by dism western knights without dishing out considerable damage, hell they can still win if you make them 3-4 ranks deep. Also berdiche axemen are indeed shock troops, so a good player won't use them directly against 2/handed heavy inf. with good defence, they are meant to be used for flanking in the inf. battle as well as to help out in the cav battle if the situation demands it, as i said i got this experience from online so my statements are more valid than experience with the A.I.

[SoulBlade]

Yeah I love those Dismounted Imperial Knights with AP maces. With a w/a upgrade they own everything. Reiters are also cool. Gothic knights are the supreme plate cavalry with a devastating charge.

[SirDestroyer]

HRE is average in vanilla but in mods they dominate lol.

[Prodigal]

I'd go with HRE.

[Old_Scratch]

France is up there, but I have to go with Spain. All around great unit roster. Most of the HRE's units are bugged in vanilla, so they aren't so great. In kingdoms though they are killer.

[cisse]

HRE has a good all-round list, but not a lot of great missile troops.

Spain is good, but lacks a bit in the spearmen department.

I'd have to go with France as well. Good knights (mounted and on foot), good crossbowmen and archers (even horse archers), good militia units...

[SturmChurro]

HRE has a good all-round list, but not a lot of great missile troops.

Spain is good, but lacks a bit in the spearmen department.

I'd have to go with France as well. Good knights (mounted and on foot), good crossbowmen and archers (even horse archers), good militia units...

Yeah that is what I mean France has the best units and that is just one reason why they are my favorite

[Reconquistador]

The HRE has a theoretically-superior unit roster.

In practice, two-handed swordsmen like the Forlorn Hope and Dismounted Gothic Knights are too easily victims of faster, one-handed attackers because of their slow attack animations.

I'm going to have to go with late period Venice on this one. Venetian Heavy Infantry working in conjunction with super-fast mace-wielding Stradiots eat everything for breakfast. The rest of the Venetian army rounds out nicely, with musketeers, venetian archers, and Carroccio-reinforced militia pikemen.

[Vic Vega]

The HRE has a theoretically-superior unit roster.

In practice, two-handed swordsmen like the Forlorn Hope and Dismounted Gothic Knights are too easily victims of faster, one-handed attackers because of their slow attack animations.

I'm going to have to go with late period Venice on this one. Venetian Heavy Infantry working in conjunction with super-fast mace-wielding Stradiots eat everything for breakfast. The rest of the Venetian army rounds out nicely, with musketeers, venetian archers, and Carroccio-reinforced militia pikemen.

I reckon the Venetians ganerally have a lower morale compared to other Factions and Stradiots cant beat heavy cavalry.