Realsm recruitment Discusion

**georg321** · October 15, 2009, 07:45 AM

Hey i have read a EB thread. There described anyone how you can play EB more realistic to get a new gameexpirience and make the game more interesting. There was one important point concerning the recruitment of units. The idea was not to fill up units who have fought in Battle. Just get out of two units one, i think you know what i mean. The consideration behind this was that for first you cant get a unit with a number of 40 soldiers full to the regular number of 180 in 1 turn. And you can retrain more than one unit in same time. Thats not really realistic. The second idea is that if you have a unit that had fought 20 Battles with an expirience of 7 and you retrain it you get new elite soldiers. But elites that are dead are gone you cant get them out of your Empire like out of a mashine.
Well that are nice Ideas and thoughts, but in fact you can recruit in EB in much more citiys elite units if you have a high lvl barack there. Here in IB i have much less good recruitment points. For the western Empire i have 5 citys at begin which are really far away from each other. Well thats not the only barrier. In Eb you recruit a regular unit for 1 and here for 4 turns.
Im interessted to work out some recruitment realsm rules, which are more or less more realistic than full up unitssize with elite units on the one hand, and on the other hand are not so strong that you need a half century to recruit a new army.
I hope this thread is interessting for you and we will work some nice rules.
For me i have for first one idea, maybe that you can full up units but only restricted and only units not higher than a certain lvl.
Now its your turn. Have fun

Mfg Georg

**charles the hammer** · October 15, 2009, 08:10 AM

Im no expert, but Im pretty sure the fact that it takes four turns is its supposed to be hard to raise a professional army. Considering the manpower shortages in the empire its the most realistic it can get. Plus if one of your professional armies gets destroyed its suppose to be devastating.

**Gromovnik** · October 15, 2009, 12:56 PM

What are the prices for sassanid catafracts and how many turns they take?

**legio_XX** · October 15, 2009, 03:38 PM

Eb is very different then ibfd. In the late roman empire the training of troops was very different armor was made slower helmets came from different parts of the empire. When a army was lost it was very hard to get more troops one example being Adrianople after that defeat the new emporer had to hire the same goths that kicked there butts.

Let's jump back to the time of Hannible, 60 thousand legionarys dead and Rome just raises even more. Te mind set was very different then the late roman army.

Sorry this is from my phone.

**julianus heraclius** · October 15, 2009, 04:07 PM

Hi Guys let me add my thoughts. This is taken from the Main Page Thread:

Recruitment Structure:

Recruitment for the roman factions has been changed to reflect the situation as it was during the 4th century. Most recruitment occurs along the borders of the empire with very little recruitment within the empire. This mod attempts to replicate this with some exceptions for gameplay.

The military structure of the army was also altered to suit changing demands and needs of the empire. This included a separation of the army into a border protection force (limitanei) and regional field armies (comitatensis). For a detailed breakdown of the army please go to this link: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=175023

There are essentially 4 levels of recruitment; Training Ground, Militia Barracks, Comites Barracks, Palatinae Barracks for infantry and Stables, Equites Castra, Comites Equites Castra, Palatine Equites Castra for cavalry

There are four recruitment types; limitanei, foederati, comitatensis, and palatinae troops.

The philosophy behind the recruitment structure is to attempt to recreate the recruiting structures of the 4th & 5th centuries where most troops were recruited along the borders with more elite troops being trained in major cities within the empire. The restriction of recruiting "higher" quality troops is to prevent people from building rolls royce armies and the majority of the roman army consisted of limitanei troops. It is also designed to make sure that you use your elite troops carefully, using limitanei units to harrass the enemy before fully engaging with field troops. So losing recruitment cities becomes a critical strategic situation as you can lose precise recuiting grounds.

This is the philosophy. Of course, if you don't like it, you can always change things for yourself, but I feel you will be missing out on some realistic strategic and tactical gameplay.

Cheers

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 03:12 AM

Realy nice thread

i have read it with pleasure. Well ok i agree with you. But what is about the refill of Elite units?! Is it ok?! Well and my 2. question: while my english is not so good and i have problems distinguish the units of each other, because of the latin name...for the composition of a late roman legion i just understood that the size was from 1000-1200 men, and that 1/3 of this army were Comitatenses skirmishers, like the Legio Comitatenses Lanciarii. Well the rest i did not really understood.
Where there in the Legions palatine units too?! Well would be nice i you can show me a list of units in late roman Legion

Gruß Georg

Edit i have found legion unit lists...but what do you think schould you play on VH/VH or if you want really to have realistic armys
u neet to play on normal for the battles?! I have started a game on VH/VH but if you fight wiht Limanti or foderati units they flee in panic even if you hold a brige and the number of units is almost equal...

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 05:50 AM

Do this units exist?! Divitenses and Tungricani

**julianus heraclius** · October 17, 2009, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by georg321

Do this units exist?! Divitenses and Tungricani

No.

These are the names I use in IJ for Auxila, Palatinae and Comitantensis Units.

Legio Palatinae: Herculianii Seniores - Arleate
Legio Palatinae: Joviani Seniores - Arleate

Legio Palatinae: Herculiani Juniores - Sirmium
Legio Palatinae: Jovianii Juniores - Sirmium

Legio Palatinae: Lanciarii Seniores - Antioch
Legio Palatinae: Armatus Invicti Iulianus - Antioch

Auxilia Palatinae: Cornuti Seniores - Mediolanium
Auxilia Palatinae: Brachiati Seniores - Mediolanium

Auxilia Palatinae: Celtae Seniores - Constantinople
Auxilia Palatinae: Petulantes Seniores - Constantinople

Auxilia Palatinae: Leones Iuniores – Augusta Treverorum
Auxilia Palatinae: Mattiaci Seniores - Augusta Treverorum

Auxilia Palatinae: Mauri Seniores - Carthage
Auxilia Palatinae: Mauri Iuniores - Carthage

Legio Comitatensis: Britones Seniores – Londinium

Legio Comitatenses: Marcommani Seniores - Argentoratum
Legio Comitatenses: Lanciarii Gallicani Honoriani – Argentoratum

Legio Comitatensis: Tertia Iulia Alpina - Singidum

Legio Comitatenses: Secunda Flavia Virtutis - Carthage

Legio Comitatensis: Secunda Flavia Constantia Thebaeorum - Damascus
Legio Comitatenses: Quinta Macedonica - Damascus

Legio Comitatenses: Fectienses Seniores - Alexandria

Legio Comitatenses: Victores – Caesarea (Asia Minor)

Legio Comitatenses: Quartodecimani – Nova Carthago

Psuedocomitatnesis: Armenia Primae - Amida
Psuedocomitatnesis: Armenia Secundae - Amida

**The10thLegion** · October 17, 2009, 07:48 AM

Legio Palatinae: Jovianii Juniores - Sirmium
Legio Palatinae: Armatus Invicti Iulianus - Antioch
Auxilia Palatinae: Celtae Seniores - Constantinople

These three are my favorites.

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 08:02 AM

Ok but what battle difficulty you can recoment to me to play with 2/3 Limantei units? And what do you think about the fill up of Elite units with high experience?!

**The10thLegion** · October 17, 2009, 08:29 AM

Hard campaign difficulty Medium Battles.

By the way Very Hard isn't the hardest do to it giving you the same bonuses the AI gets.

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 09:28 AM

Pls can you explain it more detailed?! Why is VH/VH not the most difficult lvl?! What is then the most difficult game lvl? If i have medium Battle isnt it too easy to win battles if you play them by your own and not automaticly?? And why do you chose the campaign difficulty on hard and not on VH? What happen if you play battles on hard?!

Gruß georg

**The10thLegion** · October 17, 2009, 09:35 AM

H/VH is the hardest level (Hard Campaign and Very hard battles)
The reason why I say its not the hardest is that you get the same bonuses the AI gets on VH/VH.

And no, Medium battles are not easy. They just don't give bonuses to the AI on the battlefield (which is realistic) but then again I often expieriment with my strategies so that I don't always beat the AI because the AI is always dumb.

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 09:55 AM

Hmmm, but if the AI dont get bonuses they run after few seconds of fight because they dont stay in order, for example; one unit run on me and my legions kill nearly the whole unit with spears. And because its so easy to surround the AI units, you can always win very fast...on the other hand your not elite units suck really hard, even against normal AI units. Well do you think that H/H is then a good alternative, to play the game on the one hand with lots of Limantei and on the other hand dont have a too weak AI in Battle.

**The10thLegion** · October 17, 2009, 10:28 AM

Are you talking about IJ? Ive never been able to isolate one unit before. Battles are hard even with H/M.

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 03:45 PM

I m playing IJ 355 on VH/VH. I lost some battles but now im in year 367 and i get 20000 gold each turn. I always put my heavy infrantry in 5 rows. On the flanks are my kavalarey units. Behind my infrantry are the archers. While the infrantry is fighting and my archer are schooting i run with my kavalry around the enemy units and attack them from behind...well then the enemy is between my heavy infrantry and betwenn my heavy kavalery. But the main thing is that i kill 10-20% of the enemy only with archer, skirmisher, horse archer and skirmisher and my heavy infrantry before contact. Well but i have read the rules for army composition only today so i did not play with realistic armys. I just mixed them up like i wanted. I have mostly lost battles if i had played with limantei units. With elite untis i have lost only 1 time. I have played all battles by my own. Well and i dont find that the Julianus Campaign is too hard...dont know why...thats why i started this thread to get some rules...with the army size i have already one

I find the Battles are generally easy in field. You have only a problem if you want to take a city and have no good elite untis or if the enemy has mass elite units in this city...

Gruß Georg

**The10thLegion** · October 17, 2009, 05:07 PM

Its not hard because you are playing on Very Hard/Very Hard. Again you are getting the bonuses that the AI gets. You should be deep below with your treasury.

**georg321** · October 17, 2009, 06:58 PM

Ok, in End what do you recoment to me?! H/N or H/H or H/VH. I want a game where i can play with realistic army(means that i can play with with 2/3 limantei units and that this units at least can hold a bridge ford or settlement), but have hard enough battles...well i think this will be then the last post

**The10thLegion** · October 17, 2009, 07:05 PM

Im sorry but Ive already said this and don't feel like repeating myself.

A little houserules that I go by.

3 units for each legion + 2 legion missiles.
No bridge battles
Only 2 legions per army.
No more than 4 armies with elite units (So 8 elite legions)

This is the army setup I usually have:
2 Generals
2 Light/Medium Cavalry
4 Missile Cavalry
3 Legio Units
1 Legio Missile
3 Legio units (A different named legion)
1 Legion Missile (A different named legion)
2 legionary archers
2 Auxilia units