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Thread: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

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  1. #1
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    The West Bank has seen a 'boom' in every aspect of life. There is peace, prosperity, etc. While there still remains a Hamas terrorist element, it has been pushed underground, but also largely destroyed.

    At the very center of the success in the West Bank, are the US trained security forces (PASF), overseen by Lt. Gen. Keith Dayton. The PASF, commanded by Col. Said Najjar, stands out from the West Bank's often poorly equipped and trained security services. They sport crisp olive uniforms and carry well-maintained AK-47s supplied by other countries, including Jordan and Egypt. It is a force that is professional, competent, well armed, and most importantly, a force that has a cooperative working relationship with the IDF. The success has been so staggering, that Isreal has turned over control of almost every aspect of security. People are allowed to move around freely.

    But therein lies the problem. While many Palestinians applaud the PASF's success in boosting security in the once-lawless West Bank, which is dominated by Mr. Abbas's Fatah party, support for a force that is seen as being cooperative with the IDF, is fast drying up. Support for the armed struggle, even outweighs peace and prosperity.

    So where do we go from here? Nablus and the West Bank are the benchmark, yet it is not enough?

    In an incident last fall, Palestinian forces swept into a West Bank town on the heels of the Israeli army -- only to be chased out by angry residents. An internal memo distributed among the Gen. Dayton's training team after the incident warned: "There are growing signs that the local population are increasingly losing respect for the PASF."
    In Qalqilyah, on May 31, the PASF engaged in an all-night shootout with Hamas, leaving two Hamas militants, three PASF members and a bystander dead. After the shootout, hundreds of angry Palestinians took to the streets. "Dayton's Army serves the Jews," Subea Abu Yussuf, a 24-year-old law student, shouted at a PASF officer.
    One of Col. Najjar's soldiers, Sgt. Jihad Qabaha, went to Israeli prison in 1999 for throwing a Molotov cocktail at an Israeli jeep. He says he gave up fighting Israel after he was released from prison in 2002, and joined the PASF.

    In January, Sgt. Qabaha, who is now 31 years old, graduated from Gen. Dayton's training camp beaming with pride. His trainers told trainees they were at the vanguard of efforts to build a Palestinian state. Since then, family members and friends have asked dispiriting questions about his loyalties. While he was on leave recently, his 21-year-old sister criticized the PASF for arresting Palestinians. "People say the security forces are working for the Israelis," she said disapprovingly.

    "I know that Palestinian statehood will only come by serving this way, not with force, but it's hard when the people you love question what you're doing," says Sgt. Qabaha.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  2. #2

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Somehow the notions of "peace," "prosperity," and "West Bank" don't seem to jive right. What am I missing? Is there some kind of study available?
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  3. #3

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Somehow the notions of "peace," "prosperity," and "West Bank" don't seem to jive right. What am I missing? Is there some kind of study available?
    He leaves out the fact that Fatah rules said West Bank with an iron fist, and tortures/ imprisons HAMAS members.
    "The ABC of our profession, is to avoid large abstract terms in order to try to discover behind them the only concrete realities, which are human beings."
    - Marc Bloch

    Under the Patronage of Lord Rahl

  4. #4

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Major.Stupidity View Post
    He leaves out the fact that Fatah rules said West Bank with an iron fist, and tortures/ imprisons HAMAS members.
    And the problem is?

    Anyways, the question is always the destruction of Israel, as long as its around this won't go away without a major blood bath. Not the overblown Israeli 'atrocities' type alleged by the Muslims and their left wing supporters, but a real all out, bodies everywhere conflict where there are less camera men than soldiers.

    Since we work to prevent such events, it just sort of stagnates. Reminds me of Yellowstone when they didn't allow any controlled burns. Its just going to make the next major fight all that much worse.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    And the problem is?

    Anyways, the question is always the destruction of Israel, as long as its around this won't go away without a major blood bath. Not the overblown Israeli 'atrocities' type alleged by the Muslims and their left wing supporters, but a real all out, bodies everywhere conflict where there are less camera men than soldiers.

    Since we work to prevent such events, it just sort of stagnates. Reminds me of Yellowstone when they didn't allow any controlled burns. Its just going to make the next major fight all that much worse.
    Ramblings of a Fox News Lover.

  6. #6
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Major.Stupidity View Post
    He leaves out the fact that Fatah rules said West Bank with an iron fist, and tortures/ imprisons HAMAS members.

    The only claims of torture come from terrorists, i.e. Hamas. Which is exactly what they are.

    We have had this debate before. Palestinians in the WB see the value in keeping out Hamas. It is a quality of life matter. With Hamas, Nablus was the center of resistance. Now, it is peaceful and prosperous, because Hamas was removed. Does this reality escape some of you here?

    If you are looking for perfect scenarios in the ME, stop looking. Fatah is undoubtedly, not perfect. Fact remains though, when Fatah controlled Gaza, there was cooperation with the IDF, and again, there was peace. I think it is painfully obvious that any actual peace process beings with the suppression of Hamas as a factor.

    But back to the actual theme of the thread. If Palestinian people have tasted a life that is very favorable, and yet still do not reject the armed struggle, where do we go from here? You have revived Nablus, and turned it into the role model, and yet these people are willing to throw it all away...
    Last edited by mrmouth; October 14, 2009 at 07:37 PM.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  7. #7
    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Major.Stupidity View Post
    He leaves out the fact that Fatah rules said West Bank with an iron fist, and tortures/ imprisons HAMAS members.
    Well forgive me for a lack of sympathy towards Hamas. We can't all be Jimmy Carter afterall...


  8. #8

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Pray tell, when was the last time Fatah advocated the destruction of Israel and an unquenchable blood-bath against anybody?
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  9. #9

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier
    Anyways, the question is always the destruction of Israel, as long as its around this won't go away without a major blood bath. Not the overblown Israeli 'atrocities' type alleged by the Muslims and their left wing supporters, but a real all out, bodies everywhere conflict where there are less camera men than soldiers.
    No its not, neither HAMAS or Hizbullah for that matter will destroy Israel its not a David vs Goliath scenario (and never was). Moreover, how does killing women and children in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead not qualify as an atrocity? Seriously, lay off the cliched Fox news analysis.
    "The ABC of our profession, is to avoid large abstract terms in order to try to discover behind them the only concrete realities, which are human beings."
    - Marc Bloch

    Under the Patronage of Lord Rahl

  10. #10

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Pray tell, when was the last time Fatah advocated the destruction of Israel and an unquenchable blood-bath against anybody?
    Pray tell when did I ever mention them?
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    An acceptable peacedeal for the Palestinians: Everything else is not going to work one way or another. Fatah will continue to loose credibility, is hardly popular to begin with, and it will get worse, its clear Israel is not serious, and never has been.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    i hope fatah likes the taste of that long red white and blue penis in its mouth...

    and oo what do you know

    israel at fatah backside... doing its usual thing

  13. #13
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    And I hope Hamas dislikes it

    Sgt. Jihad Qabaha
    Sgt. Jihad? Promote that man!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Pious Agnost View Post
    And I hope Hamas dislikes it



    Sgt. Jihad? Promote that man!

    Major Jihad? Possbily General?

  15. #15
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    General Jihad sounds good to me.

  16. #16
    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    So, things are improving when you aren't attacking Israel with rockets or suicide bombers or armed gunmen/thugs - so what do you do? Say Screw-you to peace and start turning against your own prosperity.

    Honestly, I think we should just throw a tarp over the entire subcontinent and ignore it for the next few centuries.
    "For the humble doily is indeed the gateway to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER!"

    ~Sidmen, Member of the House of Wilpuri, Patronized by pannonian

  17. #17
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    So, things are improving when you aren't attacking Israel with rockets or suicide bombers or armed gunmen/thugs - so what do you do? Say Screw-you to peace and start turning against your own prosperity.
    QFT

    Also, a bit off topic: But it seems the whole "Illegal settlement" thing is not such a big issue in the West bank as some might lead you to believe. In a recent poll conducted in the occupied territories, illegal settlements have come up in the 5th place in the "major issues" category. Right behind the divisions between Fatah and Hamas and the current economic situation. Personally, its not very surprising. Who do you think builds those settlements? (hint: its not the jews)
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
    Someday you will die and somehow something's going to steal your carbon
    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    I think the major problem with the palestinians(and perhaps, many arab countries with the exception of some) is they lack a culture of criticism of themselves. I admit that many countries lack such a culture , But its difficult to afford a situation in which you ignore problems of your own making.
    The palesitnians really need a great leader, one who focuses on their own faults and tells them what they should do instead of telling them what they should want. But i cant see that happening any time soon
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  19. #19

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Anyways, the question is always the destruction of Israel, as long as its around this won't go away without a major blood bath.
    In response to a quote directly about Fatah.
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  20. #20

    Default Re: Palestinian support wanes for US trained force

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    In response to a quote directly about Fatah.
    This should help.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

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