Please Devs, fix our forts...

[afflikshoN]

I would like to formally start a community petition to the developers to fix the myriad problems present in siege battles; namely, the problems with fortification defense. This problem is not unique to ETW - it has been an issue in past Total War titles as well, including Rome and MTW.

The coding is obviously difficult, no one denies this. But if it's worth doing, isn't it worth doing right? There is a great modding community here that has done a lot of work toward this end, but an official patch is desperately needed. Below I will enumerate a running list of issues that are in drastic need of attention.

If you have any suggestions not listed, please post them and they will be added to the list.


MAJOR ISSUES

• While on a fort wall, the direction a unit is facing is difficult, if not impossible, to change.

• Units rarely use fort artillery pieces properly. There needs to be an interactive component to the individual cannon which allows the player the ability to assign a unit to that particular artillery piece.

• The garrisoning of the Command Headquarters is bugged and often only allows two or three stacks of units to garrison.

• Scaling the fort properly requires a prayer and a dice roll. Why do "Eager" assaulting units feel compelled to start climbing back down the ropes on their own accord?

• Because of the difficulty in coding the AI to properly, there are numerous and problematic routing issues when ordering units to various areas of the fort, especially if those areas are on the walls.

• There is a drastic need for a major AI overhaul when it comes to sieges. For example, the assaulting AI, once they've gained access to the fort, head straight for the center with complete disregard for enemy units on the perimeter

.


MINOR/AESTHETIC ISSUES

• Grenadiers are unable to throw grenades from the fort. This is unrealistic.

• Fort artillery pieces should keep up with artillery technologies; cannister, etc.

• Let's see some violence: Where are the people falling from the walls or the ropes being cut by the units manning the walls? Seems logical that if I've got a sabre that I'm going to chop that grappling rope that just landed near me...

• There are many codes out there for destructable structures. Implementing them properly may be difficult, but a more robust graphical presentation of cannons smacking against the fort would be great.

• What happened to wooden walls? Wooden walls were not obsolete in the early 18th century, especially in colonial America. One thing that many people enjoyed about Rome was the diversity of defensive structures available and the unique impact they had on sieges.

CONCLUSION

I want to end by saying that I love this game; it is truly the game I have enjoyed more than any other. It is well done and thoroughly engaging. As a dedicated fan to the series and this game in particular, I would like to see some official fixes on behalf of the development team to the very important siege aspect of this game. Taking the time to develop a workable code for forts in ETW will pave the way for greater functionality in NTW and other future titles.

[dmcheatw]

devs say no, no more patch

[Blofeld2k]

devs say works as designed

[afflikshoN]

devs say works as designed

If it works as designed then the design is flawed; most players have been, at one time or another, frustrated by these major issues.

[jimjimjim]

agree - please make this the first TW game that doesnt have bugged walls/fortifications

[Humble Warrior]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you (and I posted on this subject too), why do you focus just on Fort defence? This isn`t going to make sieges any better alone. If you want better sieges then how the AI attacks also needs to be fixed.

How the AI attacks:
1. First they (the AI Line Infantry) should wait until their artillery has at least opened the wall at one or more points. the more the better as it is harder to defend.

2. Once in the Fort, having fought their way in) they should not head directly for the centre flag, but search out any surrounding threats amd destroy them. When threats are gone, then go for the centre. A threat would be: More troops still in fort than them or any artillery still working. Once the artillery is gone and infantry threat reduce to 10% of AI`s forces then it is safe.

3. Grappling ropes should be ditched for all Line Infantry as it is stupid. However, perhaps, small units like Rogers rangers could use ropes in an attempt to open the gates. But these would be limited troops.




Without these extra fixes sieges would still be terrible.

But CA seem to think no major patches are needed and have not even acknowledged the awfulness of sieges. I don`t have much hope for a fix.

[afflikshoN]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you (and I posted on this subject too), why do you focus just on Fort defence? This isn`t going to make sieges any better alone. If you want better sieges then how the AI attacks also needs to be fixed.

How the AI attacks:
1. First they (the AI Line Infantry) should wait until their artillery has at least opened the wall at one or more points. the more the better as it is harder to defend.

2. Once in the Fort, having fought their way in) they should not head directly for the centre flag, but search out any surrounding threats amd destroy them. When threats are gone, then go for the centre. A threat would be: More troops still in fort than them or any artillery still working. Once the artillery is gone and infantry threat reduce to 10% of AI`s forces then it is safe.

3. Grappling ropes should be ditched for all Line Infantry as it is stupid. However, perhaps, small units like Rogers rangers could use ropes in an attempt to open the gates. But these would be limited troops.




Without these extra fixes sieges would still be terrible.

But CA seem to think no major patches are needed and have not even acknowledged the awfulness of sieges. I don`t have much hope for a fix.

You have some good points on how the assaulting AI (mal)functions when assaulting. I'll add them to the suggestions.

[daniu]

If it works as designed then the design is flawed;

Yes it is. Sieges are broken beyond repair.
Problem is, "fix" is a term that is applied to bugs, what you're asking for is a redesign.
It simply will not happen.

All we can hope for is better siege AI...
I had some sieges in MP that were sort of fun.

[Humble Warrior]

Yes it is. Sieges are broken beyond repair.
Problem is, "fix" is a term that is applied to bugs, what you're asking for is a redesign.
It simply will not happen.
.

But is it really that much of a redesign? I have seen siege AI actually act a little like how it should sometimes. For instance once the walls are down, the AI will then forget rope climbing and make for the holes in the walls. In next battles they always make for the holes in the walls (since the walls don`t repair). What can be so hard from simply programming it to do that and NOT rope climb?

All it needs to do is wait until the artillery destroys the walls. Then enter, then switch on the normal fight routine to destroy the enemy. Job done.

I think the only reason CA have not finished this is because SEGA won`t let them.

[daniu]

But is it really that much of a redesign?

Well yes. The whole fort business is bulls...
my favorite argument is playing MP with equal funds and 50/50 outcome which means to me forts are a useless investment.

I have seen siege AI actually act a little like how it should sometimes. For instance once the walls are down, the AI will then forget rope climbing and make for the holes in the walls. In next battles they always make for the holes in the walls (since the walls don`t repair). What can be so hard from simply programming it to do that and NOT rope climb?

Because the best tactic in a fort attack is to surround the fort with your troops while the walls are taken down by artillery, then attack the breaches and climb all walls you can at the same time to stretch the defense thin. Cramming all your units into the small area opened by the breach is just asking for a mass rout due to being on the receiving end of grenades, cannister shot, and quicklime.

But that's beside the point; as I said, having the AI behaving better is all we can hope for.
The real problem with forts cannot be fixed (for instance, that an artillery fort is easier to defend than a star fort and that the odds to win either are the same as for an open land battle).

[dmcheatw]

If it works as designed then the design is flawed; most players have been, at one time or another, frustrated by these major issues.

dev don't care so long as u still buy NTW

[FriendoftheDork]

dev don't care so long as u still buy NTW

I feel your pain. I for one will not buy Nappy: total war and I will retain my sceptisism to the TW franchise from now on. A shame really, that even M2TW is more playable and bug free than Empire still. My only hope is that they will release modding tools to ETW at one point, probably when the game is old and they can't milk it for more money.

[Chyeaaaa111]

Your gonna have to wait until modding tools are released for these problems to be fixed

[jimjimjim]

Your gonna have to wait until modding tools are released for these problems to be fixed

hmm easy to say, but were there any mods for M2TW that fixed wall deployment/getting on or off walls/ musket firing on walls/ crossbows or musketts firing straight up in the air on walls?

I'm not sure there was - i dont think everything is fixable by a mod. If i'm wrong please link me to a mod that does fix it and i will shower you with praise.
How this got past testing for either game is beyond me.

[Chyeaaaa111]

hmm easy to say, but were there any mods for M2TW that fixed wall deployment/getting on or off walls/ musket firing on walls/ crossbows or musketts firing straight up in the air on walls?

I'm not sure there was - i dont think everything is fixable by a mod. If i'm wrong please link me to a mod that does fix it and i will shower you with praise.
How this got past testing for either game is beyond me.

True but there are several for M2TW that did wonders to the game. Stainless Steel made M2 what the game should've been at release. Anything can be done with the proper time and skill

[Turbo]

True but there are several for M2TW that did wonders to the game. Stainless Steel made M2 what the game should've been at release. Anything can be done with the proper time and skill

Empire isn't modder friendly like its predecessors and it is evident that it was done deliberately. CA isn't going to release any modder tools as it is selling products via DLC (something many of us were concerned about early on). The attitude towards modders has evidently changed and they are now viewed as competitors.

[daniu]

Empire isn't modder friendly like its predecessors and it is evident that it was done deliberately.

I would like to see the evidence then.
I think everybody agrees that ETW was rushed when it came out, probably due to pressure by SEGA.
Making software easy to change is a rather complex task which I would expect to be among the first victims of the shortcuts needed to take for a rushed product.

[daniu]

Then you can decide whether ETW is harder to mod than its predecessors.

I never said it wasn't.
I was referring to:

it is evident that it was done deliberately.

The fact that it is harder to mod than its predecessors (which I take your word for) is hardly evidence that this was done deliberately.

[jimjimjim]

True but there are several for M2TW that did wonders to the game. Stainless Steel made M2 what the game should've been at release. Anything can be done with the proper time and skill

not denying that - i have spent many hours playing M2TW modded.
But walls always have been a problem - surely the developers must be aware...

[Redbeard]

And pink unicorns, too, they're coming right before the mod tools, just a few minutes after hell freezes over...