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    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default A differant approach to the Public Option

    This popped up on the local paper and I think this is a realistic means to provide a public option for health inusance: Colorado already has public option for health care - 10/12/2009 01:05 AM MDT

    The advantage to this approach is that the preexisting condition issue is fixed without also grabbing the healthy that can afford and have available other options. Since the poor are already in a public option (medicaid) and the elderly have their own public option as well (medicare) this can fill a big gap. Will this approach require some subsidies to work. Probably, but not necessarilly and not every year.

    I am certain that other states have similar programs. I would suggest that this may mean that there is even less of a gap to be covered with actual government programs.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Colorado already has a public option in health care — it's just exclusive to sick people who have been rejected by private insurance companies.

    It's called CoverColorado, and it insures 9,800 people who have to pay about 140 percent of what the average Coloradan pays in health- insurance premiums. It is not too far-fetched, though, that the program could morph into a true public option open to everyone — a competitive choice in the individual health-insurance market.

    Key federal lawmakers crafting health care reform have rejected calls for a national public option, instead suggesting that states create their own programs. The recent shift in the debate has reform advocates considering the possibility of expanding state-run, high-risk insurance pools.

    "We have the infrastructure completely built," said Suzanne Bragg- Gamble, executive director of CoverColorado.

    Turning CoverColorado into a true public option would require changes in state law and, most likely, a major infusion of federal dollars. It would have to happen gradually — there is no way the program could take on an estimated 800,000 uninsured Coloradans all at once, state officials said.

    "It's always a question of funding," said Sen. Gail Schwartz, a Snowmass Village Democrat who is among the state lawmakers eyeing CoverColorado's potential. "It has proven itself to be successful and accountable. Are there other opportunities that could be folded into that structure?"

    CoverColorado will collect $41.7 million in premiums this year. That is less than half what it will pay in claims: an estimated $83.9 million.

    The difference is picked up through a per-customer fee on private insurance companies, the state's unclaimed-property fund and a grant from the Medicare program. No money from the state general fund supports the program.

    A last resort

    The reason CoverColorado is so expensive — in terms of customer rates as well as claims — is that almost everyone enrolled has a profound health problem or a history of one.

    Many CoverColorado customers have a chronic disease, such as cancer, diabetes or hemophilia. Some are healthy but have been rejected by private insurers for something in their past: a 35-year-old woman treated for depression in her teens, a 5-year-old born in another country with no proof of infant vaccinations other than her parents' memories.

    The program offers discounts, but premiums are still steep enough to price out thousands of Coloradans with severe health problems.

    For people with a family income between $40,000 and $50,000, the discounted rate is 120 percent of average insurance premiums in the state. And for families that earn less than $40,000, the discounted rate is 100 percent.

    Premiums are paid through automatic withdrawal from a customer's checking account. Customers who fail twice to have enough money in their accounts are barred from re-enrolling for a year.

    "The only reason CoverColorado cancels someone's coverage is if they don't pay," Bragg- Gamble said. "We don't drop people because they've gotten a new health condition."

    The state program contracts with UnitedHealthcare to provide coverage.

    Among those insured through CoverColorado is Dr. Bruce Madison, a former emergency-medicine physician who had a heart transplant in 2004. After he left a job at the University of Colorado Denver, Madison was rejected by two companies as he sought to buy private insurance.

    "That left CoverColorado as my insurer of last resort," said Madison, who pays a $1,200 monthly premium for himself and his wife, who had breast cancer. "I'm very fortunate to have that available. It's expensive, no doubt about it, but for someone like me, I obviously have to have it. I can't go without health insurance — it's just too financially dangerous to do that."

    Colorado is among 35 states with high-risk-insurance pools. At a recent national convention, the public-option question ranked high on the discussion list.

    "We are a public option," said Vernita McMurtrey, chairwoman of the National Association of State Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans. "We are basically nonprofit organizations."

    High-risk pools would have to significantly lower their rates if they were to attract a broader customer base. States likely would need subsidies from the federal government, at least at the start.

    "Most states have hundreds of thousands of uninsured that would flood into a public program," McMurtrey said. "It absolutely cannot happen overnight. It has to be phased in for a state to function and not be bankrupt."

    The association has met with members of Congress about a three- to five-year transition plan to help states create public insurance options.

    Not without challenges

    Still, some reform advocates are wary. State-run public options would face serious challenges trying to compete with private insurance companies, said Elisabeth Arenales, an analyst with the Colorado Center on Law and Policy.

    State-run public options would have fewer customers than a national system, with fewer people to spread risk and share cost. In Colorado, two insurance companies — Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield and UnitedHealthcare — have about half the market share.

    "We have really been hoping that whatever happens would happen at a federal level," Arenales said. "(But) a state- run public option would be better than no public option."


    Then there is the McCain interview this weekend: McCain: Avoid 'historic' error in Afghanistan


    McCain on health care reform, Palin

    On the domestic front, McCain said his party needs to be prepared for the next phase of the health care reform debate, likely to begin as soon as the last of five reform bills is put to an expected vote Tuesday in the Senate Finance Committee.

    "We Republicans need to come up with our agenda, and we need to do it so that there is a viable alternative to this [legislation in the Senate Finance Committee]. And it has to do with things that are not associated with government-controlled health care in America.

    "And there are many, many things we can do -- medical malpractice reform, go across state lines to get insurance policies of your choice, refundable tax credits -- there's a long list of things that we can and should propose as we enter this debate."

    Asked whether he would vote for the version of health care reform legislation championed by finance committee chairman Max Baucus, D-Montana, if it came to the Senate floor, McCain said he would have to wait and see what the final Senate version of reform legislation looks like.
    I think the Democrats need to take a more serious look at the potential for reforms that are not comprehensive and do not completely rewrite the economic rules. Nor every solution needs to be more government and no solution needs to be displace private competition.
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    The problem I see with the PO is that it seems like a weak single-payer version. Institute a single-payer system and let health insurance companies go into, I don't know, car insurance. Don't try to run a Postal Service/FedEx/UPS scheme; it does not work that well.

    Can't do single-payer? Ok, how about this: let people buy health insurance across state lines but throw in this little nugget as law: "after an individual has signed a health insurance contract this contract can not be terminated if the person passed your background checks" or something to that effect. In the meantime, have the government pay for annual check-ups but force people to pay out of pocket for any treatments they may require.
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    The USPS works very well in counter balancing UPS and FedEx.


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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    The USPS works very well in counter balancing UPS and FedEx.
    The USPS is the only way you have to deliver mail thanks to it's government granted monopoly it's in no way a a good choice when it comes to the delivery of packages and all the other things the private companies do. Besides it's balance sheets are always running in red ink, it's no way successful.

    Comparing a public option to the USPS wins you no points.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    VP, if a public option was to be implemented that is how I would want it by the state. Left to the state on whether to have it or not and how big it should be. Though I like it as Colorado has it, the absolute provider of last resort.

    Rather than sticking it to the entire nation with a big bloated federal system.
    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    As Soon as I heard that covercolorado only covers the sick and terminally ill I realize it would have some problems. The point of a public option like like insurance programs is to hold a large pool with a potential majority being healthy. The healthier the clientele the less your pay in premiums. Once you have a base of healthy people then you can tack on the ill. You cannot have an insurance base of just sick people, thats just ludicrious. 140 Percent, wtf.
    And burdening the healthly with really high premiums drives them away.
    Last edited by BNS; October 12, 2009 at 08:23 AM.



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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by BNS View Post
    Besides it's balance sheets are always running in red ink, it's no way successful.
    Are you serious?

    Do you even know what the purpose of the creation of the government-run USPS was?

    IF ITS INTENDED TO MAKE PROFITS THEN WHATS THE POINT OF IT BEING RUN BY THE GOVT?!? GOSH!


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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    Are you serious?

    Do you even know what the purpose of the creation of the government-run USPS was?

    IF ITS INTENDED TO MAKE PROFITS THEN WHATS THE POINT OF IT BEING RUN BY THE GOVT?!? GOSH!
    The point is that a government run company is inefficient. You will end up paying more because it takes more money to run the company, especially over the long-run. There is no incentive to save money. Plus, customer service and quality of service go down the drain.


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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDe1337 View Post
    The point is that a government run company is inefficient. You will end up paying more because it takes more money to run the company, especially over the long-run. There is no incentive to save money. Plus, customer service and quality of service go down the drain.
    Correction. It takes more money because the service must provided to everyone and anyone covered by the law regardless of their need level and the cost should remain reasonable regardless of the demand on the service provided.
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDe1337 View Post
    The point is that a government run company is inefficient. You will end up paying more because it takes more money to run the company, especially over the long-run. There is no incentive to save money. Plus, customer service and quality of service go down the drain.
    The whole point of public option is to COUNTER BALANCE the private options.

    With the existence of USPS as a less quality but cheaper option, DHL, FedEx and UPS cant control postal prices.

    So Public Option is nothing but an OPTION!

    If you dont like it then dont use it. Simple.


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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    As Soon as I heard that covercolorado only covers the sick and terminally ill I realize it would have some problems. The point of a public option like like insurance programs is to hold a large pool with a potential majority being healthy. The healthier the clientele the less your pay in premiums. Once you have a base of healthy people then you can tack on the ill. You cannot have an insurance base of just sick people, thats just ludicrious. 140 Percent, wtf.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    I can deliver mail through UPS or DHL mate. Just place a letter inside one of their giant envelopes and ship it off. Far more reliable journey.

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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    I can deliver mail through UPS or DHL mate. Just place a letter inside one of their giant envelopes and ship it off. Far more reliable journey.
    No doubt there's ways around it but you have to ship it as a package envelope.

    I'm just pointing out the great lengths the government as to go through to keep the USPS in service.



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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    I can deliver mail through UPS or DHL mate. Just place a letter inside one of their giant envelopes and ship it off. Far more reliable journey.
    You can be fined for that. And in fact many companies every year are fined for using carriers other than USPS to deliver mail.
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Do you really want a private postal service delivering mail across the country?

    Well I delivered something to the IRS in a UPS envelope so...
    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; October 12, 2009 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Do you really want a private postal service delivering mail across the country?

    Well I delivered something to the IRS in a UPS envelope so...
    Yes.. You yourself said the service is better. I worked for a company that shipped hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of aircraft parts a week across continents using these companies. Sometimes having them delivered in one or two days. Heck yeah I would trust them to deliver my mail across the country.



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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    So...what's the definition of 'sick' for this kind of public option? I just have to be rejected by insurance carriers? For how many months? I suppose I could go four or five months without my medicine and have a few seizures for them. What if they accept me but I have an outrageously expensive plan that does next to nothing for me? I guess I could pay out the ass for my premiums and likely end up with a pharmacy that either gives me generics that would make my neurologist homicidal if he knew I were taking them or I can pay even more for my meds than the premiums and end up living on the street due to lack of money.

    State POs are all well and good, and likely what we would end up with anyway(Fed handing funding out and saying "run this program"), but there's a reason 'last choice' programs really suck. Though as the article implies, they can be morphed. But not without a serious influx of funding, which in the end would be federal, which in the end be exactly like what we're shooting for now for a public option.
    Last edited by Gaidin; October 12, 2009 at 09:31 AM.
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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    My point exactly BNS, DHL, UPS for parcels. USPS for general mail. I dont think its feasible to begin with for a private service to deliver general mail. First they would charge more, secondly, whats the point.

    Well said Gaiden.

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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    My point exactly BNS, DHL, UPS for parcels. USPS for general mail. I dont think its feasible to begin with for a private service to deliver general mail. First they would charge more, secondly, whats the point.
    They have the resources to do it. They would run at a profit instead of being a burden to the taxpayer and would provide better service. If costs do increase it would be by a negligible amount. You only need to cut the government granted monopoly on mail for this to become all too obvious.

    Gaiden makes a good point, government would have to sort that out. But I don't want a big public option it will crowd out the market and force the healthy people to unfairly carry more of the burden.

    Furthermore a program run by the state would be more responsive to what the people want and don't want.
    Last edited by BNS; October 12, 2009 at 09:57 AM.



  18. #18

    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    I don't think comparing the postal system to health insurance has any meaning.

    We already have a national public run insurance program to compare to private plans, its called Medicare. And when you compare overhead costs and patient satisfaction, it has very good marks, better than private plans. Medicare Advantage is also a good model for how you can have the benefits of private insurance even in a single payer system (though Medicare Advantage is silly in that it gives out more money than normal Medicare which defeats the point).

    However, I think the public option would be more palatible if instead of a national program, the US government would offer to cover start-up costs for state run programs in states that wanted to do so.

    I think what people are misunderstanding on both the left and right is that the public option is not where all the money is going into. It is only 2-6 billion in start up costs (7-20 Dollars per Person), with premiums then covering all operating costs. The real money ( ~800 Billion over 10 years) is going into subsidies that can be used to buy any insurance plan people want. This is why the Senate Bill that has no public option is still $840 Billion.

    Personally, I am willing to pay 20 Bucks to have a public competitor that might by virtue of ~3% overhead and national risk pooling, bring down costs, and put that ~20% of premiums skimmed off by private insurers into the pockets of Doctors, nurses and hospitals.

    Its a relatively small bet that could have a huge payoff. And if it is a failure, I'm out 20 bucks, which is insignicant compared to the thousands I spend on health insurance each year.
    Last edited by Sphere; October 12, 2009 at 10:06 AM.

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    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    If you wish to bring down costs -- get consumers involved in where they go and what services they are going to pay for. The public option will not lower costs since one more identical carrier is not going to change the competitive environment. This of course presumes that the public option is not simply semantics for a program to drop competition into the ditch.

    The reason for a public option similar to the Colorado program is to cover a portion of the market that is shut out of coverage under the current system. It is not meant to increase competition. It is not meant to lower costs. It is meant, as government social safety net programs are meant, to help out portions of the population that need help. These programs are best if they have a minimal effect on the private sector rather than be designed to change the private sector. This is also why the side discussion on the postal service is missing the point.
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    Default Re: A differant approach to the Public Option

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    If you wish to bring down costs -- get consumers involved in where they go and what services they are going to pay for. The public option will not lower costs since one more identical carrier is not going to change the competitive environment. This of course presumes that the public option is not simply semantics for a program to drop competition into the ditch.

    The reason for a public option similar to the Colorado program is to cover a portion of the market that is shut out of coverage under the current system. It is not meant to increase competition. It is not meant to lower costs. It is meant, as government social safety net programs are meant, to help out portions of the population that need help. These programs are best if they have a minimal effect on the private sector rather than be designed to change the private sector. This is also why the side discussion on the postal service is missing the point.
    Ah, but this proposal leaves out the number one part of the problem. It is not the number of uninsured, its the inefficient/ coverage that both insurance and medicare provides. Do you know how hard it is to get medicare coverage or anything of the sort below the age of 65?

    Proposals like this waste much more money than a public option would. Medicare is so extremely expensive and bureacratic because of the loopholes and conditions it has to work under. As a result, its entirely inefficient and practically useless for most people.
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