Cold Water for the Angry Bear

[GeneralL]

Russian-Ukrainian relations have now completly dumped after Ukraine started to sells it's best tanks to Geogia this month
The Ukrainian government promisses that this was just the beginning.

How will it affect the Euopean trade routs controlled by the giant red tentacles ? What do you think ?

The Russian-Ukrainian row

The T-84Oplot

[Stavroforos]

Does Georgia even have the ability to properly maintain them? Besides, you could give Georgia Leopard 2A6s and still not expect them to win against one of the world's large military powers.

[Lord Claremorris]

Does Georgia even have the ability to properly maintain them? Besides, you could give Georgia Leopard 2A6s and still not expect them to win against one of the world's large military powers.

Seconded. I think Russia will still thrash Georgia and Ukraine will only be needlessly ticking the Russkies off.

[GeneralL]

Does Georgia even have the ability to properly maintain them? Besides, you could give Georgia Leopard 2A6s and still not expect them to win against one of the world's large military powers.

It is not about showing your neighbour, who is 100 times larger and stronger than you, the saber. It is generally about strenghten the GAF, nothing else.

Well yes. The T-84Oplot's unit price is some 450-550.000 $. Peanuts. With the current military budget, Georgia could buy and maintain at least 1000 of it, every year( Theoratically ),with ammo supply from Ukraine, Turkey, Israel and the Czech Republic.

Leo2a6 ? Are you kidding. The germans would rather die than selling their tanks to Georgia, because of their relationship with Russia.

Seconded. I think Russia will still thrash Georgia and Ukraine will only be needlessly ticking the Russkies off.

Please stay on topic. Nobody plans to attack anyone.

[Rapax]

Leo2a6 ? Are you kidding. The germans would rather die than selling their tanks to Georgia, because of their relationship with Russia.

That and the German parliament would never allow selling weapons to a country that only started a war last year and potentially tries to do so again in the foreseeable future.


Also, stop juggling numbers people, don't kid yourself thinking that Russia's vast tank fleet, or anyone else's for that matter is fully operational and available for any kind of conflict.

[GeneralL]

Also, stop juggling numbers people, don't kid yourself thinking that Russia's vast tank fleet, or anyone else's for that matter is fully operational and available for any kind of conflict.

You don't want to check that .... When Ivan starts to roll, he will only stop when empty of fuil.

[Babur]

That and the German parliament would never allow selling weapons to a country that only started a war last year and potentially tries to do so again in the foreseeable future.

well some would still dispute whether Georgia was entirely to blame for the war

[Rapax]

well some would still dispute whether Georgia was entirely to blame for the war

They are free to still do that, but it's October 2009 now, not August 2008, information has moved on.

You don't want to check that .... When Ivan starts to roll, he will only stop when empty of fuil.

And bla, bla, bla.

[Heathen Hammer]

Meh. If Georgia attacks again, it will be just more practicing targets for Russians, nothing else.
And its pretty stupid for Ukraine to bite the hand that feeds it.

[GeneralL]

Meh. If Georgia attacks again, it will be just more practicing targets for Russians, nothing else.
And its pretty stupid for Ukraine to bite the hand that feeds it.

............................................... -.- Could you please first read my introduction ....

Well, Ukraine's decissions should be independent, like in all the other countries around the globe. It is not a sattelite nation anymore. The Ukrainian government is helping to reequip it's alliy's army. I do not really see a reason for Russia to worry about this, since both partners, Ukraine and Russia still have close ties, good economical trade relations and the GAF will never present a threat to the Russian Army, which is 30 times the size.

[danzig]

Meh. If Georgia attacks again, it will be just more practicing targets for Russians, nothing else.
And its pretty stupid for Ukraine to bite the hand that feeds it.

The Ukrainians are free to sell their military hardware to anyone and Russia is one of the last countries to say a word about questionable arm sales.

[GeneralL]

The Ukrainians are free to sell their military hardware to anyone and Russia is one of the last countries to say a word about questionable arm sales.

Exactly. Moreover, it is absolutly unreasonable for Russia to unnessesarily bloat itself

[Heathen Hammer]

The Ukrainians are free to sell their military hardware to anyone and Russia is one of the last countries to say a word about questionable arm sales.

So nobody will have a right to say anything to Russia if it sells some of its newest military equipment to North Korea? Or maybe Taliban?

[danzig]

So nobody will have a right to say anything to Russia if it sells some of its newest military equipment to North Korea? Or maybe Taliban?

Oh some will say something I cant speak for everyone obviously but it will hardly impact what Russia actually does anyway. The point is Russia will sell to whoever they want (as will the US) so it is hypocritical of them to get their panties in a bunch over the Ukraine doing what everyone else already does. Besides Georgia is hardly comparable to Taliban, who many of its older members probably engaged in killing *many* Russian soldiers in the past so would be dumb to sell to them there beyond tic for tac. And North Koreans? Even the Russians can appreciate the dangers of an unstable country, so close to them with nuclear weapons. Georgia however is Russia sticking its nose in the internal affairs of another nation more akin to Iraq.

[Heathen Hammer]

Oh some will say something I cant speak for everyone obviously but it will hardly impact what Russia actually does anyway. The point is Russia will sell to whoever they want (as will the US) so it is hypocritical of them to get their panties in a bunch over the Ukraine doing what everyone else already does. Besides Georgia is hardly comparable to Taliban, who many of its older members probably engaged in killing *many* Russian soldiers in the past so would be dumb to sell to them there beyond tic for tac. And North Koreans? Even the Russians can appreciate the dangers of an unstable country, so close to them with nuclear weapons. Georgia however is Russia sticking its nose in the internal affairs of another nation more akin to Iraq.

And what if Russia starts supporting Iraq resistance movements? Or what if Russia would sell Saddam a lot of new equipment before and during invasion?

[GeneralL]

Oh some will say something I cant speak for everyone obviously but it will hardly impact what Russia actually does anyway. The point is Russia will sell to whoever they want (as will the US) so it is hypocritical of them to get their panties in a bunch over the Ukraine doing what everyone else already does. Besides Georgia is hardly comparable to Taliban, who many of its older members probably engaged in killing *many* Russian soldiers in the past so would be dumb to sell to them there beyond tic for tac. And North Koreans? Even the Russians can appreciate the dangers of an unstable country, so close to them with nuclear weapons. Georgia however is Russia sticking its nose in the internal affairs of another nation more akin to Iraq.

Oh, I see. So now, when a georgian soldier kills a russian soldier during a conlict, he will be automatically declared as a terrorist by Kremlin and the whole georgian nation is a terroist host, because russian forces were killed by georgian forces in an armed confrontation. So theoratically, Russia is not only surrounded by evil devil demon NATO forces, but also potential terrorist nations at the same time.
.... Aha, never saw the situation from that point of view ..... Very interesting. That explains some very few things of the past ....

[RomanSoldier9001]

Meh. If Georgia attacks again, it will be just more practicing targets for Russians, nothing else.
And its pretty stupid for Ukraine to bite the hand that feeds it.

I didnt know that countries could attack themsefls since South Odessia was part of Georgia!
I just say go Ukraine is about time Ukraine gets off russian tenctacles.

[Heathen Hammer]

I didnt know that countries could attack themsefls since South Odessia was part of Georgia!

De-facto it was not and along with South Osetian cities and villages Georgians also attacked Russian military base.

I just say go Ukraine is about time Ukraine gets off russian tenctacles.

By getting into Uncle Sam's tentacles like Georgia?

[RomanSoldier9001]

[QUOTE=Volh Vseslavich;6109907]

De-facto it was not and along with South Osetian cities and villages Georgians also attacked Russian military base.

What were russians doing in South Odessia a land that suposely belongs to Georgia?
Anyway previous to the full military war ;on 7 August the Georgian peacekeeping checkpoint in Avnevi came under artillery fire which killed two Georgian peacekeepers so is higly debatble of who star it first.
Georgia just wanted to restore order on pronvice of country of Georgia. Russia response wasnt for simpathy towards South Odessians just the fall of status quo in region because of two factors Georgia future membership in NATO that puts NATO direcly in backdoor of Russia and Georgia gaining a provicne that Russia saw as theirs.
I mean if is Georgia that wants to restore a province that de jure is theirs is wrong but when is Russian doing it with Chechenia is wrigth isnt that hipocrasy?

By getting into Uncle Sam's tentacles like Georgia?

Realy you want to compared? Uncles Sam´s Tentacles didnt come down charching to help Georgia when war happen. They have good relations and threaties but is higly debatble that USA has control on Georgia.
I mean USA never try to poison a President of Georgia.

[Panzerbear]

What were russians doing in South Odessia a land that suposely belongs to Georgia?

same thing that the Georgian and South Ossetian detachments did there, namely, peacekeeping. the three-party peace keeping force was established according to Moscow agreements of 1994. that is, before the Georgians decided to kill everyone else.

Anyway previous to the full military war ;on 7 August the Georgian peacekeeping checkpoint in Avnevi came under artillery fire which killed two Georgian peacekeepers so is higly debatble of who star it first.

both sides were shooting each other on a nightly basis prior to 7th August. all of this has been not only well documented, but also were shown in this very forum via youtube videos.

Georgia just wanted to restore order on pronvice of country of Georgia.

except that neither they were "restoring order" nor did they have any right to do so. its like saying that Saddam had rights to shoot down UN patrols over the green zone, because it was his country's territory.

Russia response wasnt for simpathy towards South Odessians just the fall of status quo in region because of two factors Georgia future membership in NATO that puts NATO direcly in backdoor of Russia and Georgia gaining a provicne that Russia saw as theirs.
I mean if is Georgia that wants to restore a province that de jure is theirs is wrong but when is Russian doing it with Chechenia is wrigth isnt that hipocrasy?

all of which merely shows how little do you know about all the things you mentioned. reading a couple of politically-engaged articles on WSJ doesnt make you an expert, sorry.

Realy you want to compared? Uncles Sam´s Tentacles didnt come down charching to help Georgia when war happen. They have good relations and threaties but is higly debatble that USA has control on Georgia.

by definition, if US installs a government in Georgia through a revolution of the roses, it is fully responsible for its puppet regime. sometimes the puppets have tendencies to act on their own, this is true, but it is still not helping your cause.

I mean USA never try to poison a President of Georgia.

president of Georgia was poisoned?