Barack Obama adviser says Sharia Law is misunderstood

[Gauvin]

President Barack Obama's adviser on Muslim affairs, Dalia Mogahed, has provoked controversy by appearing on a British television show hosted by a member of an extremist group to talk about Sharia Law.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nderstood.html

Miss Mogahed, appointed to the President's Council on Faith-Based and Neighbourhood Partnerships, said the Western view of Sharia was "oversimplified" and the majority of women around the world associate it with "gender justice".

The White House adviser made the remarks on a London-based TV discussion programme hosted by Ibtihal Bsis, a member of the extremist Hizb ut Tahrir party.

The group believes in the non-violent destruction of Western democracy and the creation of an Islamic state under Sharia Law across the world.

Miss Mogahed appeared alongside Hizb ut Tahrir's national women's officer, Nazreen Nawaz.

During the 45-minute discussion, on the Islam Channel programme Muslimah Dilemma earlier this week, the two members of the group made repeated attacks on secular "man-made law" and the West's "lethal cocktail of liberty and capitalism".

They called for Sharia Law to be "the source of legislation" and said that women should not be "permitted to hold a position of leadership in government".

Miss Mogahed made no challenge to these demands and said that "promiscuity" and the "breakdown of traditional values" were what Muslims admired least about the West.

Do you think she should have defended democracy and secular legislature, and the right of women to hold public office?

Should she be given Hizb ut-tahrir the prestige of having spoken with a white official, especially since they're staunchely anti-american, even instructing Muslim soldiers from all nations to kick out Americans from the Muslim world and re-establish centuries-old Muslim supremacy:

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/index.php/EN/wshow/753

Reclaim the authority which is your right, mobilize with Hizb ut Tahrir to uproot these wretched rulers, tools of the colonialists, and establish the Khilafah in their place, with a rightly guided Khaleefah who will eliminate all colonialist influence within the Muslim lands and mobilize all of the resources of the Muslims for the supremacy of the Muslims.

O People of Power! O Muslims of the Armed Forces!
Eight years, dear brothers, it has been eight years, since America began to demand from us to assist her in her evil project. She demanded our bases, our air corridors and our logistics support to invade the region. She then demanded that Pakistan is opened up further to her intelligence agencies. She then demanded that you sit silently as she struck with her drones here and there. She then demanded that you spill your pure Muslim blood in her defense, first demanding you move in Swat and now demanding that you move in Waziristan, the real cause for her anguish in Afghanistan for all these years.

And even after all these years and all of these demands, she seeks to expand her infrastructure so she is in a better position to watch over you, command and instruct you, order and forbid you! Is this not enough, already, for you to move and give the Americans the reply that they really deserve? Is it not high time you give Nussrah to 000 000 for re-establishing the Khilafah? Should the seventh largest armed forces in the world, with soldiers motivated by Eeman, not now move to change the situation of the Ummah from one of disgrace and humiliation to that of dignity and victory? Allah سبحانه وتعالى said,
قَاتِلُوهُمْ يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللَّهُ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ وَيُخْزِهِمْ وَيَنْصُرْكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَيَشْفِ صُدُورَ قَوْمٍ مُؤْمِنِينَ
“Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands, and disgrace them, and give you victory over them, and heal the breasts of a believing people.” [Surah At-Tawbah 9:14]

A side note, in Ed Husain's book, the Islamist, he details his time as a high profile member of Hizb ut-tahrir and how their fanaticism leads to violence, which from the above quote, you shouldn't be surprised.

Do you think it was inapproriate for Dalia to criticize the West's view of Shari'a, when Hizb ut-tahrir's view of shari'a calls for the subjugation of non-Muslims, the destruction of democracy, amputations, stonings, and the rest?

Should Obama choose a new adviser who can defend U.S. values, which many Muslims share, when faced with Muslim fanatics who oppose U.S. values?

Your thoughts?

****EDIT Your thoughtful thoughts?

[Gromovnik]

I can almost hear the thunder of their hooves...

[removeduser_487563287433]

My thoughts? Saying that Sharia Law is misunderstood by most westerners is a polite way of saying they're ignorant about it.

[Gauvin]

My thoughts? Saying that Sharia Law is misunderstood by most westerners is a polite way of saying they're ignorant about it.

Do Hizb ut-tahrir understand it correctly?

I can almost hear the thunder of their hooves...

Although their membership has grown, no one seriously thinks they'll achieve their objectives. It's the fanaticism and the resulting violence which should trouble you.

I should remind you that we're currently at war with people who say these same exact things, so we are at war with groups who want to expel Americans from the Mid-East, or\and want to establish a Khalifa and islamic governance.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Do Hizb ut-tahrir understand it correctly?

Was the advisor making any comment as to whether they understood it correctly? What are you angry with exactly, that he spoke to the group at all?

[Gauvin]

Was the advisor making any comment as to whether they understood it correctly? What are you angry with exactly, that he spoke to the group at all?

Read my original post, I asked two very specific questions to start the discussion, which none of you so far answered, but instead gave typical sarcastic remarks. If you had read the original post, you would've at least discerned that the advisor was a female, and therefor not a "he".

So, Ferrets, I'll have to ask you again what I've had to ask you in other threads I've opened which is to actually read my original post, and THEN reply to it.

President Obama has to deal with these people, shouting that they're heathen barbarians is not the best way to do this

Is that really the only alternative Barry? Or did you just think of the most ridiculous alternative and pretend it was a choice between that and this?

[Barry Ferguson]

Is that really the only alternative Barry? Or did you just think of the most ridiculous alternative and pretend it was a choice between that and this?

The point I was making is that if you refuse to even investigate or debate someone else's views you have no business working in politics. To illustrate that I used what literary types call hyperbole

[Simon Cashmere]

She stated that the West doesn't understand how Shari'a works, which is absolutely 100% correct.
This is aptly demonstrated by the fact that people hear Shari'a and can only think of stoning, jihad, blah, blah, when that's not actually what it's about.

It's not all that its about. But stoning is one of the penalties under sharia. Jihad doesn't really come into it.

In fact, not a single critic of Shari'a on this board -- which is a surprisingly decent cross-section of various Western states and mindsets -- has demonstrated an actual academic or theological understanding of what it is.

No matter how 'learned' one's discussion on sharia is, it always comes back to someone saying, you are not a muslim who speaks Arabic, so you could not possibly know anything about it. Sharia imposes brutal religious laws and is the engine of a dictatorial system of theocratic government. That is all that most people should need to know, to reject it.

[Farnan]

Hey good job proving her point

[motiv-8]

Hey good job proving her point

Game, set, match.

[Simon Cashmere]

Hey good job proving her point

Which is what? That to oppose the USSR, we had to do a Phd in Soviet Jurisprudence? To oppose the Third Reich, the general public needed to take classes in Nazi juridical doctrines?

I have manuals of Islamic law on my shelf. I could quote from them, but to do that would just mean I was a race hating bigot. The end result is that people only want to understand sharia law if that understanding means that it is still a really cool exciting exotic fun thing. If it turns out to be really bad, they don't want to know.

The starting point is that an infidel cannot ever know sharia law, it is arcane and beyond our understanding. Any description of our understanding, is tainted by the basic premise. So any demonstration of the problems of sharia law, is just discrimination and race hatred. So the infidel observer is unable to say anything about sharia law, ever unless it is good. So Islam and its Leftist Enablers have confined the debate to one area - say good things about sharia law, or shut up.

[motiv-8]

Which is what? That to oppose the USSR, we had to do a Phd in Soviet Jurisprudence? To oppose the Third Reich, the general public needed to take classes in Nazi juridical doctrines?

Islam is not a state. Try again.

I have manuals of Islamic law on my shelf. I could quote from them, but to do that would just mean I was a race hating bigot. The end result is that people only want to understand sharia law if that understanding means that it is still a really cool exciting exotic fun thing. If it turns out to really bad, they don't want to know.

No, please do, bring out those manuals of Islamic law and quote them. It'd be the first time you ever did something other than mouth off incoherent generalities and decry imaginary ivory tower left-wing elitism.

Of course, the truth is that commentaries of Islamic scholars of jurisprudence deal with rather mundane items like "Can I have sex with my wife on X date" or "Can I drink tea at x time of day?" There's also the issue that Islamic law deals with a lot more than just Shari'a.

[Farnan]

The starting point is that an infidel cannot ever know sharia law, it is arcane and beyond our understanding. Any description of our understanding, is tainted by the basic premise. So any demonstration of the problems of sharia law, is just discrimination and race hatred. So the infidel observer is unable to say anything about sharia law, ever unless it is good. So Islam and its Leftist Enablers have confined the debate to one area - say good things about sharia law, or shut up.

Actually I'll go on to say many Muslims, if not a majority don't understand Sharia law.

And Sharia has things wrong with it and good about it. Actually the proportion depends on the interpretation and school the reader belongs to.

[Heinz Guderian]

Hey good job proving her point

hahah, holy shiz Farnan, take away my infractions so i can rep you.

[Visna]

It's not all that its about. But stoning is one of the penalties under sharia. Jihad doesn't really come into it.

The death penalty is a part of Shari'a just like it is a part of for example Mosaic law. What Obama's advisor is getting at is that there is a lot more to Shari'a than stoning. It's an early version of an Islamic Magna Carta.

No matter how 'learned' one's discussion on sharia is, it always comes back to someone saying, you are not a muslim who speaks Arabic, so you could not possibly know anything about it. Sharia imposes brutal religious laws and is the engine of a dictatorial system of theocratic government. That is all that most people should need to know, to reject it.

Certainly noone around here. Debating the pros and cons of Shari'a is all fine and dandy, heck even Muslims don't agree and interpretations differ from region to region, school of thought and from century to century. I'd reckon most Muslims don't even know what Shari'a is. Much like most non-Muslim westeners.

[Barry Ferguson]

This is from "The Islam Channel". If I wanted to discuss Christian Fundementalism on The God Channel, I can't imagine I'd get a very balanced view.

"Should Obama choose a new adviser who can defend U.S. values, which many Muslims share, when faced with Muslim fanatics who oppose U.S. values?"

Oh noes, someone who hasn't gone out and shouted that "America is the best and everyone must do things our way". There's lots of people on this planet, most of them don't live like you. President Obama has to deal with these people, shouting that they're heathen barbarians is not the best way to do this

[Bleda]

Do you think she should have defended democracy and secular legislature, and the right of women to hold public office?

Of course not, she works for Barrack Obama, she is by definition a radical and self-hating westerner.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I answered it perfectly. Of course she's right to criticise the west view's on sharia, most people couldn't tell you the first thing about it. And although this isn't politically astute behaviour, its going to get filed firmly under freedom of speech.

You know, one of those western values you claim to support.

And for 's sake, look up the definition of sarcasm.

[Pickle_mole]

And for 's sake, look up the definition of sarcasm.

sarcasm is scarcasm

Sharia just needs to be accepted by the west (whats the west? i think its just the word for Caucasian countries that require islams enlightenment) Its really simple actually, Sharia Law is responsible for all the advances in the islamic world and it needs to be adopted by the kuffar!

When can we start extracting the jizyah? we could pay down the deficits!

Praise be to Allah, the all understanding, all just, all patient lord our god.

THAT!

Let me ask you is Islam a threat to the "west"?
Will it just disappear, be absorbed into your culture?
Replaced by Christianity or Atheism?
Will it become just another religion with its quirks?
will it change your culture?
Will it take over your culture?
Will it cause untold Strife?
Is it an ideology comparable to Nazism or the Khmer Rouge?
Is it Compatible with secular rule?
Is it compatible with secular populations
Does it respect non Muslims AKA Kuffar?
Is it a PEACEFUL religion?

[Barry Ferguson]

[QUOTE=Pickle_mole;6104703]

Let me ask you is Islam a threat to the "west"?

No, it's a religion

Will it just disappear, be absorbed into your culture?

Does it have to be?

Replaced by Christianity or Atheism?

Does it have to be

Will it become just another religion with its quirks?

It already is

will it change your culture?

No

Will it take over your culture?

No

Will it cause untold Strife?

No

Is it an ideology comparable to Nazism or the Khmer Rouge?

Most certainly not. I've never heard of Islamic concentration camps

Is it Compatible with secular rule?

Yes: Turkey, Egypt and Jordan for example

Is it compatible with secular populations

Yes, see above and also Britain, Germany, or any other European country you care to name

Does it respect non Muslims AKA Kuffar?

You mean kaffir. And actually, yes. It describes Christians and Jews as "people of the book", and historically they were afforded full rights. More than European Christians managed until the 19th century

Is it a PEACEFUL religion?

Is christianity? Have you read the Old Testament? And the history of Crusaders, the Thirty Years War or Northern Ireland?