Teutonic Order Impossible

[kannwar]

I have twice now tried playing as the Teutonic Order (VH/H) and both times have given up in frustration due to the hideously poor economy this faction starts with. It would help if the faction could recruit some decent cheap units but one if forced to make do with this Sword Militia rubbish that can't hold a line for more than 2 seconds. This means you have to recruit professional units to make up numbers and what do you know, all of this faction's units cost double what other factions units would cost. And for what? An enemy bodyguard can take out half of these fandangled Order Spearmen no sweat. More in fact. I can't even conquer Lithuania because the stupid money scripts mean they can field 3 stacks or more for my 1 stack which always gets wiped out anyhow and on top of that, my whole economy is used up in keeping this one stack active. Taking Visby in the beginng has hardly helped at all.

I think i hate this faction. No matter what tactics i use it is impossible to beat Lithuania in an open field due to all their f**ing cavalry. Don't bother to deploy stakes because they just go around them. I find it incredibly frustrating playing this faction whereas other factions i could actually use tactics and win. Has anyone had any success playing this?

[Sokar Rostau]

Sadly, I have repeatedly seen words to the effect of "don't bother playing Teutons in VH/VH because it's almost impossible" (pretty sure this sentence is even included in the notes for BYG4).

I think that far too many people play M2TW in the wrong way and then complain that the game is too easy because they can conquer the entire map in 100 Turns. This then results in mods designed to make this play-style more difficult which has the unfortunate side-effect of making other play-styles impossible.

[Byg]

Sadly, I have repeatedly seen words to the effect of "don't bother playing Teutons in VH/VH because it's almost impossible" (pretty sure this sentence is even included in the notes for BYG4).

I think that far too many people play M2TW in the wrong way and then complain that the game is too easy because they can conquer the entire map in 100 Turns. This then results in mods designed to make this play-style more difficult which has the unfortunate side-effect of making other play-styles impossible.

It doesn't say that, but it is a very good faction to play for those many experienced vh/vh players that need a challenge. The thread starter does not mention what mod/submod combination he is using.

[meese]

Eh..lower the difficulty perhaps? I mean..that sounds reasonable doesn't it? Hate's a pretty strong word too..especially for a faction in a game.

[Point Blank]

Teutons is one of the most enjoyable factions. Try not to use your expensive Feudal units (if playing RC/RR) because they are free upkeep in castles. Buy archers and spearmen, and some swords to hold off their spear infantry. Once you grab some other settlements, you will do better. Why not call a crusade on Vilnius? They are pagans afterall.

[cedric37]

I would advise trying to play in M/x difficulty or give you more money at start if you don't want the vanilla AI passed the difficult start (add_money..... ? )

Personnaly, i too found teutons too hard to play passed M/x so i have made changes in descr_strat.txt to give teutons the Thorn province (which was one of their first settlements historically, known as Torùn, so why not...it is changed as a castle in my game), this re-balance the power in this region and make teutons playable again. Plus i have changed slightly the starting units to have slightly better units and alos added zweihander (through EDB/EDU) in castle's unit roster. Finally Konigsberg was changed into a fortress (cannot recruit halbrudder 1st turn, you still have to build barracks or stables).
This way i found teutons playable at least in H/x and when AI plays this faction, it does not cease to exist after 20 turns (as usual....). I also re-made nearly all card units (i found dismounter ritterbruder ugly , so now i have made a card that is now my avatar ).
I have not proposed this as a sub-mod, because i am lazy and my changes are all based on SS6.1 (i really dislike RR/RC, so i don't use SS6.2...) and i have also changed a lot more things in EDU/EDB (e.g. you can recruit dismounted templars when you can recruit mounted templars in chapters + i have made BIG changes for Knights_templar / Kingdom of Jerusalem factions, rest is left untouched).

Note: poland start with one less settlement which i have balanced by giving them slightly better settlements and slightly better starting units and this seems to be very fair at the end.

[Massive_attack]

RR isn't in 6.2 IIRC, Real Combat is, but RC is great and improves the game overall, without making sacrifices.

I recommend you try 6.2 out, it really is good, though do try to play a "easier" faction before, say, the TO. (6.2 AI is incredible)

[CrossSide]

Teutonic order is not impossible. I play on VH/VH and made it till turn 100. Crusades are you're friend I allied the Danes and focussed all my attacks on Lithuania. Then I called a crusade on Poland which we're destroyed after that also. Then I called a crusade on the HRE and took Hamburg, but after that my unit costs were so high I ended up bankrupt. I will try them some day again.

Fill your'e cities with militias and only defend with them. Try to build a full stack army and go on a rampage with them. With some good tactics it's easy to crush Lituania with. Don't bother the missle cavalry, but instead try to kill the general first and then attack the spearmen/swordmen from behind with you're cavalry. Good luck, it won't be easy

[Massive_attack]

Oh, to the OP, what version of Stainless Steel are you using ? Are you using any submods, and if so, what are they ? Most importantly, are you using any AI mods ?

Knowing this will help better understand the problem. For now, try Hard difficulty in the campaign, i still find it difficult personally, and depending on the sub mod you use, Hard is still alot of fun. Heck with 6.2 hard feels almost gritty. Very intense.

Edit: and as far as the TO is concerned, that faction is in fact excellent. They have some seriously sweet troops later on, and as far as castles go they have easily one of if not THE best rosters in the game. The city units rather suck, but oh well, you got some BAMF's in the castles, that can make up for it if your careful.

In 6.1, without any AI mods mind you, and i cheated a bit for some money in the very early game, i had a merry time conquering all of Russia whilst staving off an unending tide of byzantine aggression in Poland (Byzantium became some kind of ungodly superpower that pumped out stacks in my game, was totally awesome).

[King Siegfried]

The Teutonic Order is an amazingly fun faction to play. You just have to play it smart. Here is what I do:

• Immediately get a crusade called on Vilnius!!! Crusader mercenaries are CHEAP, and crusading armies have FREE upkeep! This gives your economy a break (which it clearly needs). Eat Lithuania like a fat kid would cake. Take Vilnius last (unless you're in danger of another faction stealing this prize) so that you get the most out of your crusading efforts. And when you are done (hopefully around turn 10), your economy will be MUCH better.

• Double your efforts to take Turku! This fortress is a necessity. First of all, it starts rebel, so you won't launch a war you're ill-prepared to fight (Poland is relentless). And if you take it before Russia, then you'll have a very easy time defending it - I've successfully defended against five subsequent Russian armies and in the process depleted Russia's treasury. Turku is always my first citadel when I play TO, and getting Ritterbruder early is amazing.

• If Poland attacks you (it's inevitable), take Thorn via artillery!!! Poland's military might collapses without Thorn, and it provides you with a near impregnable defense right on the western front of this Polish-Teutonic war. If you're playing intelligently, Poland will only last so many turns before you crush them. Again, without an advanced military settlement, Poland cannot match your power.

• Visby is only a valuable asset if you secure trade rights from everyone around the island that you can. Without the ability to trade to the Danes and Poles, Visby quickly becomes a breeding ground for greedy NPCs tryin' to get their grubby mitts on the isle. And I personally feel it loses its luster as a great income-generator if it starts a war that just drains all your money away.

So that's it! With these tips in mind, you should be able to crush any other faction that gives you trouble. Just play intelligently and you'll do fine.

[soulson]

I am spanking factions playing as the TO on H/VH. Def call a crusade right away and take visby to. If you can hang in there the Mongols will actually help you out but reducing the russian forces out west making it prime to invade.

[soulson]

By far my best campaign as to date. Started off with the usual Allies (HRE,PAPAL,CRUSADER) but also allied with the Danes to help out with the Russians. Didn't take long for the Danes to attack the Empire so I sided with HRE. 10 turns later the Danes allied with the Russians and fought against me so I got Norway's alliance. Norway then allied with HRE and began fighting the Danes with the help of me and the HRE, vassaling them. Poland basically got steam rolled by the excommed HRE. HRE vassled them with my help after they destroyed polands capital (smoke coming from the ruins). Of course Poland went looking for help and allied with France and Hungary just before. France then allied with the huns, venice and denmark which is very smart. They waited and after gaining their alliances that took maybe 10 turns, France attacked the HRE. That stopped after 15 turns with France calling for peace. I vassled Lithuania but Kiev took out their last settlement so I am now at war with them. The only problem I have is Vilinus being held by the Crusader States (my ally and popes Ally) and they are the vassel of the fatimid faction. I really want it to further advance into Russia who are relentless btw. EVERYONE is hanging in there though. Very interesting campaign and TO is not only playable but a ton of fun.


http://img65.imageshack.us/i/23035799.jpg/

[Caesar Clivus]

Sounds like a very fun campaign soulson!

[cedric37]

I have applied ss6.2 patch and started a new game M/M (to get used to SS6.2 before increasing the difficulty, if i ever do it...) with the TO, and they are a very interesting faction to play.
I have started to destroy lithuania first, then attacked Novgorod, took Smolensk and Pskov and found myself in a delicate situation because novgorod were allied with the pope and me not...
So i allied also with the pope and moved to poland, and nearly conquered it all except for a settlement (breslau... i had to stop due to fear of excomunication).
I then declared war on HRE and conquered vienna, salzburg and prague. I had to make peace for the same reason i made peace with poland...
After that Venice were exco so i conquered Venice, Zagreb and Ragusa (thanks god, Venice gives me 9k/turn now^^ twice what my 2nd best city earns me... which is Vienna). Venice faction continue to exist in Caffa and... that's all ^^
I then destroyed poland and declared war to denmark who were installed in russia. I took Novgorod city from them, Talinn and Turku.
I then moved on Visby and Kalmar + Nykoeping. Then i had to stop because Pope would exco me... In the mean time, genoa broke their alliance with me and threaten me to give them money or they would attack. I decided to attack them with a stack plenty of dismounted ritterbruder.
This caused my alliance with the pope to break too... But i conquered Bologna. Someone then called a crusade on Gaza. I took this opportunity to attack denmark and genoa simultnaeously.
German who were now my new and most reliable allies (perfect relationship), helpde me finish off the danes and were exco along with me ^^
Sicily was too exco because as my good allies they helped me too to finish off the genoese. So now we are a block of 3 exco allies ^^
But Sicily is starting to send full stacks more and more near Roma.... lol. I think i will help them killing the pope and vote for antoher one, then get reconciliated again ^^
Turn number 90: i have now 33 settlements and 50k/turn of meny left. My next target will be hungary and the byz.

[Goofy]

kannwar: open your M2TW directory and find your way to this file: M2TW\mods\Stainless Steel\world\maps\campaign\custom\Late_Era_Campaign\descr_strat.
Search "faction teutonic_order" by pressing Ctrl + F.
You see something like this;

faction teutonic_order, balanced henry
ai_label catholic
denari 12000
denari_kings_purse 2200

The blue number shows the starting amount of money of the faction. The red shows the amount of money received every turn (King's Purse; this can be found in "Finances" menu during a campaign). Edit them a bit higher (consider the amount yourself), save the file and now playing by TO should be much easier.
But, as King Siegfried said, you must blitz Lithuania very quickly - if you don't manage at this, they'll get too powerful to beat.

[Caesar Clivus]

kannwar: open your M2TW directory and find your way to this file: M2TW\mods\Stainless Steel\world\maps\campaign\custom\Late_Era_Campaign\descr_strat.
Search "faction teutonic_order" by pressing Ctrl + F.
You see something like this;

faction teutonic_order, balanced henry
ai_label catholic
denari 12000
denari_kings_purse 2200

The blue number shows the starting amount of money of the faction. The red shows the amount of money received every turn (King's Purse; this can be found in "Finances" menu during a campaign). Edit them a bit higher (consider the amount yourself), save the file and now playing by TO should be much easier.
But, as King Siegfried said, you must blitz Lithuania very quickly - if you don't manage at this, they'll get too powerful to beat.

Those changes aren't savegame compatible though

[Goofy]

Those changes aren't savegame compatible though

True, but if his campaign failed (as I understood) he may start a new one with better economy

[KittySN]

I usually recruit 2 Cogs and send out both garrisons to capture Visby and Turku, upon which I immediately return and combine forces. Don't worry. Lithuania won't attack immediately. Then I can have a balanced treasury while I'm eliminating Lithuania. Go straight for Vilnius to remove their recruitment pool while fixing up a small replenishment force to erradicate the rest of Lithuania. Stay sharp though, because Novgorod and Poland will be getting dirty thoughts around turn 10.

[strife1013]

I love the T.O., I just move them elsewhere.

[Colonel Kraken]

I thought it might be better for me to use this thread to ask my question.

I just started a campaign as the TO. I'm not able to build Order Spearman, I do not see it possible at all for any building for castle or city. Can anyone tell me why I will not be able to build the MUCH needed Order Spearman?