[IDEA] Rumours of Middle-Earth

[Twist of Cain]

Following a thread about fog of war, and how information did (or did not) spread in ye days of yore (random useless fact, the y in ye is pronounced th, unless ye is replacing 'you') I thought it would be nice to see more historical events pop up. I'm looking for any random thoughts on what to do about it, and technical advice, but so far I have some definite ideas, and a start of code thanks to TNZ.

Rumour types I would like to see so far:

• Armies of [Nation] are laying siege to their enemies.(I_FactionBesieging)
• A settlement of [Nation] has come under siege. Their allies are called for aid! (I_FactionBesieged)
• Blood money has been offered by a prominent member of [Nation]. (LeaderOrderedAssassination)
• A prominent member of [Nation] has survived a vicious attack on their life. (SufferAssassinationAttempt)
• A prominent member of [Nation] has been slain by assassins. (AssassinationMission, 100% chance for own family members)
• Lands have suffered devastation by armies of [Nation]. (GeneralDevastatesTile)
• [City] has fallen to troops besieging it. (OccupySettlement, SackSettlement, ExterminatePopulation, CityRazed)
• Tales are spun in taverns about ferocious acts of battle by a great warrior of [Nation](GeneralNumKillsInBattle)
• A general of legendary proportions, [Name], has taken an army and is in enemy lands. (InEnemyLands)

Various thoughts on rumour-hearing:

• Percent chances implemented on every rumour, never a 0 or 100% chance to hear things. (RandomPercent)
• Use factors like being within defined zones, faction relationships and distances named characters are from cities to further determine chances of hearing. (FactionStanding, I_CharacterTypeNearTile, I_FactionNearTile)
• Check for taverns and inns to modify some of these chances. (SettlementBuildingExists, NumBuildingsCompletedFaction)
• Occasional false rumours, reduced by number of spies. (Hmm... no condition for this?)
• Miscellaneous effects for some of this, such as wizards and palantiri.

Any ideas are welcome.

[maroule]

I love this idea, would give more depth to campaigns by creating the idea of a living, breathing world outside of your own actions.

I agree with all the rumour types, not so sure about the last one (besides, it's fairly common and could spamm). Let's make the rumors quite chunky, to avoid spamming.

In the parameters of rumour hearing, I don't know what's possible to implement, but main parameters are indeed races/factions (where you can factor palantiri and more generally how reclusive or not a faction is), number of spies, number of alliances, trade level (merchants are great purveyors), maybe number of boats (sailors are the other great purveyors / can be tracked through taverns, indeed)

makes for a complex equation, though...

[Twist of Cain]

I love this idea, would give more depth to campaigns by creating the idea of a living, breathing world outside of your own actions.

I agree, I'm a firm believer that it often only takes small changes to make a large effect.

I agree with all the rumour types, not so sure about the last one (besides, it's fairly common and could spamm). Let's make the rumors quite chunky, to avoid spamming.

True that. Well, it would only apply to uniquely named heroes, such as Gandalf and the likes - however, a counter so that it only happens the first time they enter enemy lands with an army might be good, too.

In the parameters of rumour hearing, I don't know what's possible to implement, but main parameters are indeed races/factions (where you can factor palantiri and more generally how reclusive or not a faction is), number of spies, number of alliances, trade level (merchants are great purveyors), maybe number of boats (sailors are the other great purveyors / can be tracked through taverns, indeed)

makes for a complex equation, though...

Yes. I'd like to make many things matter, but limiting the number of things that can affect any particular rumour at once would help. For instance, having sailors and merchants (good point about those btw) would probably help with general rumours, such as involving large armies, but not assassinations. On the other hand, assassins and spies obviously hang out in circles that pick up those sort of rumours, even when they can't really get enough information to prevent anything.

As far as how to implement things... you can track distances from cities, however, then you need an equation per city, times the number of rumours you have. That might be acceptable once per city - say, when they are captured. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to decide on "cultural centers." Distances from these points will determine chance or depth of information. This would allow some fairly logical things: Move a general into the heart of your ally's territory, and you'll find out a lot more about what's going on with them. Having a spy near or in an enemy capital will make you more likely to pick up on when their armies are sieging, or when they come under siege somewhere.

That part will shape the news you get to reflect your nation's position in middle earth.

[Soul Firez]

the false rumours The last one wouldnt be hard to do set it at faction start with a condition on a number of spies and random percent chance of firing it would require maybe 3 monitiors for the varrying amount of spies you have each with larger random percent chance of firing on the lower lvl of spies you have ( of course you would need one for each type of fals information so it would be quite a lengthy one for a false info .)

brilliant idea though it would add flavour hearing about what has happened beyond your walls nice work mate

[Twist of Cain]

the false rumours The last one wouldnt be hard to do set it at faction start with a condition on a number of spies and random percent chance of firing it would require maybe 3 monitiors for the varrying amount of spies you have each with larger random percent chance of firing on the lower lvl of spies you have ( of course you would need one for each type of fals information so it would be quite a lengthy one for a false info .)

brilliant idea though it would add flavour hearing about what has happened beyond your walls nice work mate

Thanks!

I dug and dug and could not find a way yet to find out how many spies a nation has. However, I might just use the number of buildings that can recruit spies instead. It fits somewhat, since it's their capacity for having spies, at least. A bit ironic but fitting, too - nations that invest in information gathering also develop the grapevines that inform their enemies...

[Point Blank]

Nice idea, could be a big project though!

[Soul Firez]

You might want to ask luis lux and his team if they have any suitable 2d work to go with it well unless your a 2d man yourself i have basic skills in this field . Have you downloaded the ultimate docudemons to see what you can use in regards to monitors events conditions etc etc (cant say i have looked for one linked to spies but i am sure there will be something that will fit

[Twist of Cain]

You might want to ask luis lux and his team if they have any suitable 2d work to go with it well unless your a 2d man yourself i have basic skills in this field . Have you downloaded the ultimate docudemons to see what you can use in regards to monitors events conditions etc etc (cant say i have looked for one linked to spies but i am sure there will be something that will fit

Actually, I have it, but haven't looked through it yet. I've looked through the standard docudaemon files though.

[cherryfunk]

Great idea!

[OfficerJohn]

Sounds partly DLV-ish.
So I just gotta love it! Awesome idea.

Surely, the rumour hearing should be realistically based (Eriador gets a small chance to hear about what's going on around Khand, really...)

[Dark_Enlighter]

I second John and I would like to add that rumours coming out the lands of Mordor would be almost non-existent

[Momus]

I love the idea, I have always wondered if this was possible but always thought I would sound stupid as asking!

Could the beacons between Gondor and Rohan be used - in the text at least so if Minas Tirith or Edoras/Helms Deep is sieged you get a message saying something like:

"The beacons are blazing against the night skies! Our allies need is dire! Forth and fear no darkness as we honour our alligence!"


Or nicer polished up wording *coughJALcough*

[Packman]

This is genius!

[Twist of Cain]

Going to be spending a few days in the Appalachians, if bears don't eat me, there may be more here later.

[Fev]

Great Idea!

[Æsir]

I have an idea - if Minas Tirith is besieged, there can be rumor that Signal beacons of Gondor are shining through mountains.

[DaVinci]

Awesome ideas.

I suggest also to add messages if a king/leader dies and a new one is assigned. Here is the example script (BBB mod event scripting, used in ChivalryII-SV).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
	;; AI-Faction Leader Death Messages ;;
	;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;                restrict_strat_radar false

        declare_counter moors_becomesking
        declare_counter portugal_becomesking
	declare_counter spain_becomesking
        declare_counter turks_becomesking
        declare_counter egypt_becomesking
        declare_counter byzantium_becomesking
        declare_counter russia_becomesking
        declare_counter poland_becomesking
        declare_counter hungary_becomesking
        declare_counter hre_becomesking
        declare_counter france_becomesking
        declare_counter england_becomesking
        declare_counter scotland_becomesking
        declare_counter venice_becomesking
        declare_counter milan_becomesking
        declare_counter sicily_becomesking

	set_counter moors_becomesking 0
	set_counter portugal_becomesking 0
	set_counter spain_becomesking 0
	set_counter turks_becomesking 0
	set_counter egypt_becomesking 0
	set_counter byzantium_becomesking 0
	set_counter russia_becomesking 0
	set_counter poland_becomesking 0
	set_counter hungary_becomesking 0
	set_counter hre_becomesking 0
	set_counter france_becomesking 0
	set_counter england_becomesking 0
	set_counter scotland_becomesking 0
	set_counter venice_becomesking 0
	set_counter milan_becomesking 0
	set_counter sicily_becomesking 0

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter moors_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType moors
	set_counter moors_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter moors_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType moors
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic moors_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter moors_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter moors_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType moors
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic moors_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter moors_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter portugal_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType portugal
	set_counter portugal_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter portugal_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType portugal
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic portugal_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter portugal_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter portugal_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType portugal
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic portugal_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter portugal_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter spain_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType spain
	set_counter spain_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter spain_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType spain
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic spain_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter spain_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter spain_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType spain
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic spain_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter spain_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter turks_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType turks
	set_counter turks_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter turks_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType turks
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic turks_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter turks_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter turks_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType turks
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic turks_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter turks_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter egypt_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType egypt
	set_counter egypt_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter egypt_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType egypt
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic egypt_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter egypt_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter egypt_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType egypt
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic egypt_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter egypt_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter byzantium_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType byzantium
	set_counter byzantium_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter byzantium_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType byzantium
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic byzantium_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter byzantium_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter byzantium_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType byzantium
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic byzantium_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter byzantium_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter russia_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType russia
	set_counter russia_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter russia_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType russia
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic russia_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter russia_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter russia_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType russia
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic russia_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter russia_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter poland_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType poland
	set_counter poland_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter poland_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType poland
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic poland_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter poland_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter poland_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType poland
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic poland_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter poland_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter hungary_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType hungary
	set_counter hungary_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter hungary_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType hungary
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic hungary_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter hungary_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter hungary_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType hungary
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic hungary_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter hungary_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter hre_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType hre
	set_counter hre_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter hre_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType hre
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic hre_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter hre_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter hre_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType hre
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic hre_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter hre_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter france_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType france
	set_counter france_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter france_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType france
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic france_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter france_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter france_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType france
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic france_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter france_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter england_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType england
	set_counter england_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter england_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType england
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic england_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter england_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter england_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType england
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic england_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter england_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter scotland_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType scotland
	set_counter scotland_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter scotland_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType scotland
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic scotland_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter scotland_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter scotland_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType scotland
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic scotland_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter scotland_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter venice_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType venice
	set_counter venice_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter venice_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType venice
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic venice_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter venice_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter venice_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType venice
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic venice_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter venice_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter milan_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType milan
	set_counter milan_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter milan_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType milan
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic milan_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter milan_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter milan_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType milan
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic milan_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter milan_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter sicily_becomesking < 1
		and FactionType sicily
	set_counter sicily_becomesking 1
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter sicily_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType sicily
		and not Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic sicily_king_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter sicily_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

	monitor_event CharacterTurnEnd not FactionIsLocal
		and I_CompareCounter sicily_becomesking > 0
		and IsFactionLeader
		and FactionType sicily
		and Trait FactionRegent > 0
		add_events
			event historic sicily_regent_event
		date 0
	end_add_events
	set_counter sicily_becomesking 0
	end_monitor

This kind of script needs to correspond with traits.

[Twist of Cain]

Lots of good ideas so far people, thank you. I have this project on the back burner right now, but it is definitely something I intend to follow up on. (unless someone else gets to it first) I'll just leave this here as a reminder to myself:

Also, I had an idea. There should be news concerning when your own Generals/Governors get assassinated. I'm not liking this checking in every once in a while to discover your super-trade-bonus Adrahil II is missing from Dol Amroth with no explanation.

[Maverock]

Hope it will work out, good luck!

[Twist of Cain]

I am coming back to this now.

1. The first step should be simple to implement for single-player, omniscient version: if it happens everyone finds out.

2. After this, single-player, dependent version: if it happens everyone might find out depending on certain factors.

3. Lastly, multi-player, intel-dependent: if it happens each nation might find out independently depending on various factors, some of which are specific to their nation.

Knowing myself, I expect to get done with 1, fairly easily. 2 will be a bit more work, but a stepping stone to the more complex 3, which, frankly, I expect won't get done before I am busy with other things, or work, or simply lose interest. Let's hope for 1, though.