The Beginning of the End?

[gty12]

Hi all,
I know this might not be the right forum place so I'm sorry I couldn't find one.
Now that Napoleon Total War is coming out, I'm looking ahead to the future and after Napoleon times the next 'realm' I see is that of WWI. Now forgive me if I'm wrong about this as I do not know much history between 1821 (Napoleon's death) and 1915.

I know that there has been quite a few attempts at a WWI strategy game and most have failed utterly.
So my question is do you think this period may be a down point for the Total War series or will it be an utter success as there is veyr little competition at the moment in this period of history for a strategy game.

Gty12

[Invictus XII]

The World Wars cannot be achievable in a TW game, CA would never change its basic setup of the block formations being streched out to any length, when on the other hand, the world wars were just basically a giant skirmish to some degree. Even the Civil war of America is pushing that! Napoleon TW is coming to the end of the musket lines era, about another 50 years and then they cannot go any further. The only way they could do the World Wars is completely change the TW basic engine which CA would never do! Personally i wouldn't want it!

[setep]

Traditionally the Total War games have been about pitched battles and I'd agree with what the previous poster said, World War I would require a massive change in the basic concepts and premises of the Total War series. However, I don't believe the Total War series is somehow in decline though or has an expiration date, I'm very hopeful for a second Rome Total War game which will bring Creative Assembly back to what they really know and hopefully be as brilliant as the first (which I still prefer out of the entire series, if you can believe it). A new Rome Total War game is almost inevitable in my opinion and after the unexpected awesome-ness of the naval battles in Empire I'd really love to be able to take command of Classical navies. EDIT: Similarly, I would also like to see a new reimagination of Shogun.

[Ballacraine]

Traditionally the Total War games have been about pitched battles and I'd agree with what the previous poster said, World War I would require a massive change in the basic concepts and premises of the Total War series. However, I don't believe the Total War series is somehow in decline though or has an expiration date, I'm very hopeful for a second Rome Total War game which will bring Creative Assembly back to what they really know and hopefully be as brilliant as the first (which I still prefer out of the entire series, if you can believe it). A new Rome Total War game is almost inevitable in my opinion and after the unexpected awesome-ness of the naval battles in Empire I'd really love to be able to take command of Classical navies. EDIT: Similarly, I would also like to see a new reimagination of Shogun.

I agree.

Rome 2 with proper naval battles.

[superca]

Well, similiar to your opinion of trench warfare, my opinion of the classical naval battles is no better. I mean, what are they going to simulate, those BC tactics seem awfully primitive to me. If you want to destroy an enemy or ship or kill their crew, what are your options? Ramming seems the only viable option here, sure, there is the portable 'bridge' known as the crow, but hey, melee fights take a loong time and only get your ships occuppied and tied down to a single spot, where they are easy targets for other ships to, ehm, ram.

Still, it would be very nice if they would have included mounted catapults, or the ability to break other ships' oars, I can imagine the look on the enemy's face when they would realise their quinquereme (hope I spelled that right) is stuck, half their oars broken by a smaller ship. And I can also imagine the sheer grandiosity of ordering 'Ramming speed', turning on slow-mo and watching the approaching armoured bow of your quinquereme from the enemy's deck, but still, this 'classical' naval combat seems very primitive to me, and I'm pretty sure it will be even more repetitive than the Empire's, where I can't help myself not to use auto-resolve all the time. But yeah, it's better to HAVE naval combat that not to have it and pray every time you click auto-resolve.

Otherwise, for me the series is nowhere near its end, still, they have almost reached an important milestone in the series, where they can choose to go foward into the 20. century, and radically evolve their concept of a RTS, or just stick with the current one and remake Rome. I'd be happy in any way. Still, I like trying out new things, and 20. century sounds quite interesting to me, as do planes, armoured ships (god, I hope Napoleon will have ironclads), submarines, and of course, tanks!... Basically, all it takes for a game to turn out great is an interesting idea, and I sure think CA have the capacity to think one up.

I am quite unsatisfied with the current games set in WW1 period, seems like no developers have the balls to tackle the problems (repetition and the subsequent boredom are large ones) and develop a really nice game (I don't mind if it is an FPS or an RTS). A proper game in this period could serve as a large learning point to us all, and show yet again that all wars are quite needless and futile, can you imagine watching your fellow soldier's guts flying around or an entire squad disappearing in a fog of blood? If I'd have the means, I'd develop such a game, only to make you quit after half an hour and prevent you from thinking that war is the answer to anything ever again. Or maybe I've been listening to Radiohead's Harry Patch (In memory of) a little too much.

[setep]

Well, similiar to your opinion of trench warfare, my opinion of the classical naval battles is no better. I mean, what are they going to simulate, those BC tactics seem awfully primitive to me. If you want to destroy an enemy or ship or kill their crew, what are your options? Ramming seems the only viable option here, sure, there is the portable 'bridge' known as the crow, but hey, melee fights take a loong time and only get your ships occuppied and tied down to a single spot, where they are easy targets for other ships to, ehm, ram.

Still, it would be very nice if they would have included mounted catapults, or the ability to break other ships' oars, I can imagine the look on the enemy's face when they would realise their quinquereme (hope I spelled that right) is stuck, half their oars broken by a smaller ship. And I can also imagine the sheer grandiosity of ordering 'Ramming speed', turning on slow-mo and watching the approaching armoured bow of your quinquereme from the enemy's deck, but still, this 'classical' naval combat seems very primitive to me, and I'm pretty sure it will be even more repetitive than the Empire's, where I can't help myself not to use auto-resolve all the time. But yeah, it's better to HAVE naval combat that not to have it and pray every time you click auto-resolve.

Some good points here, I suppose the extent of tactics would be: ramming, missile fire (including larger deck weapons, like you mention) and boarding. However, if you think about battles like Actium, ramming wasn't always the best solution and grappling another ship in order to board them could be very risky, so I don't imagine either option would be an instant win.

[dmcheatw]

The World Wars cannot be achievable in a TW game, CA would never change its basic setup of the block formations being streched out to any length, when on the other hand, the world wars were just basically a giant skirmish to some degree. Even the Civil war of America is pushing that! Napoleon TW is coming to the end of the musket lines era, about another 50 years and then they cannot go any further. The only way they could do the World Wars is completely change the TW basic engine which CA would never do! Personally i wouldn't want it!

well CA made a new engine to model firearms better didn't they? If so, the next game WILL have guns in it, because they didn't make the engine just to do one game and a pseudo game and then move on... that would not be effective use of resources.

No way they'll be doing a WWI total war. What would the tagline be? "WW!:TW, Live in a ditch!"

it wasn;t totally like that though, in the eastern front the war was somewhat more mobile, and if there could have been a significant breach in the trench lines in the west then the war may have become a war of mobility again. even though it is true that the technologies of the period lent themselves to static, defensive warfare. the biggest problem I can see is that tanks would almost have to be OP in WWI TW b/c that is the technology everyone will need to effect a significant breech in the trench line. otherwise it is totally an attrition thing, and CA has a long way to go to model a conflict of attrition, as TW models pitched battles with only superficial attention to economic, diplomatic, and political pressures.

[War&Politics]

I think after Napoleon CA would be best to go back and do a remake of Shogun, Rome or another earlier period. Personally I'd like a Rome 2:TW if they can pull it off properly.

[The Noble Lord]

I think after Napoleon CA would be best to go back and do a remake of Shogun, Rome or another earlier period. Personally I'd like a Rome 2:TW if they can pull it off properly.

I agree110%. By going back to the roots, the CA would make something that is the bread and butter of the TW gaming. And best examples would be ROME2 and SHOGUN2.

[Frost, colonel]

I agree110%. By going back to the roots, the CA would make something that is the bread and butter of the TW gaming. And best examples would be ROME2 and SHOGUN2.

I would have RTWII on pre-order if it was available

[Comrade_Rory]

Agression: Reign Over Europe pulled off a WW1-WW2 era TW style game. CA should just rip them off and perfect it.

[GeneralL]

Why do you all see a deadline after ETW and N:TW ???? I have no understanding for that. What would it take for CA to improve the existent features and develope some new engines. They came so far and now I am supposed to believe that developing a new engine is practically impossible ? No, that is redicilious, guys. Of course an overhaul of Shogun would be fantastic, but keeping out the greatest wars in mankinds history .... that would just not fit.

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

Victorian era is as far as the TW series should go for me.

not sure about trench warfare, but WWII is a big no. i don't see tanks, spread out soldiers, planes..etc. TW would have to change the basic concept of a TW game, and i am not for that.

another thing i want to point out, is that CA is not ready for such a massive game.

[Nikos]

No way they'll be doing a WWI total war. What would the tagline be? "WW!:TW, Live in a ditch!"

[pisoiasul]

I wold really like to see another Shogun : Total War and I'm hoping that CA is thinking of that ... Shogun with 2010 graphics

[Barbarian Nobility]

No way they'll be doing a WWI total war. What would the tagline be? "WW!:TW, Live in a ditch!"

I would assume it would simply be entitled "Total War".

[Jackson1]

Yeah, if a game engine based off of WWI style warfare was possible with CA style then they should go on...however let's be realistic.

Real time strategy games for these areas blow....because the style of warfare is meant for fps and things of that nature.

A remake of any of the following would be acceptable; Shogun, (maybe even a Medieval 3), and most importantly, Rome

Oh, let's not forget that the American Civil War is a possibility here....not as many factions, but diversity in units and the capability for in depth battle strategies is almost endless.

[Anduin1]

Seeing as how the majority of WWI battles were achieved via trench warfare as well as little in terms of diversity in temrs of units, it would be a dreadfully boring game. War game RTS can be done well, I mean Company of Heroes was really well done for a WWII RTS but thats such a limited scale compared to what the Total War series is known for. So yea, I think the series has definitely hit the end point in terms of how far they can go into the timeline and still have it playable and fun.

[Panchito]

Shogun 2 or some sort of pike and shot era game would be the best

[helmersen]

I dont think they will make it. I'm hoping for a Rome: 2 or a Medieval: 3