kontos in china?

[AqD]

There is a weapon called "槊" in the ancient book "馬槊譜", written in the Southern and Northern Dynasties. Its length and usage appear to be similar to that of kontos. Anyone know about it? Any battle records??

[hellheaven1987]

No, it was written during Sui Dynasty; here is the description.

《马槊谱》 作者不详，是中国隋代的枪法书，后来亡佚，内容已不可考，但其序言在《古今图书集成》中有收录

Source.

As we can see, it is a 枪法书. 枪法 is the Chinese term means "technic of spear/lance", generally means a two-hands spear exclusively used for infantry (the body of 枪 is made by soft wood, so it is very flexible; the purpose was to create a weapon that has the advantage of stick with a point head), but it can use on horseback, yet its soft body means it was not suitable for charge purpose.

For spear/lance made by hard wood, there is another term in Chinese.

[AqD]

You're talking about infantry 槊, not the cavalry 槊 I meant......

The cavalry 槊 described is weighted more than 9kg, longer than 4 meters, and connected with a rope (hanging on horse neck/head, identical to kontos charge style). It's said to be used in Song cavalry but I have no ancient chinese book here for confirmation....

[hellheaven1987]

You're talking about infantry 槊, not the cavalry 槊 I meant......

As I state, 枪 can use on horse back, but it was hold by two-hand and use more like a halbred because its soft body, which cannot take the impact of charge.

And certainly, the different material used for its main body mean it has different used than the western lance we familiar, which was made by hard wood.

[AqD]

As I state, 枪 can use on horse back, but it was hold by two-hand and use more like a halbred because its soft body, which cannot take the impact of charge.

And certainly, the different material used for its main body mean it has different used than the western lance we familiar, which was made by hard wood.

1.The one with halbred is the common weapon depicted in most cavalry pictures. It's NOT what I'm talking about.

2."kontos" is not western lance. There are details about how it's used in Osprey's book about Sarmatians.



Here is the picture of the weapon:


It appearantly comes from pictures in a book. The text is cut due to copyright issue, but it appears as same as the descriptions of kontos. But that's all I got




BTW here is another text I found: 南朝梁簡文帝《馬槊譜序》：“馬槊為用，雖非古法，近代相傳，稍以成藝。” (南朝梁, not Sui dynasty)

"雖非古法" - imported from central asia alongwith the heavy cavalry tradition?

[hellheaven1987]

Oh, I did more checks on it, and have this.

古代在马上使用的长矛。

马槊为用，虽非古法，近代相传，稍以成艺。　　南朝 梁简文帝《马槊谱序》

按曹操父子，横槊赋诗于鞍马之间，则马槊之事，已见于此矣。岂其事之所起乎？　　宋 高承《事物纪原·戎容兵械·马槊》

Source.

Translate to English:

A spear (hard wood; 矛 means spear made by hard wood) used on horseback during ancient time.

The use of lance (马槊, I would tanslate it lance, since it is closest weapon European know), despite not came from ancient time, had been seen some progress due to recent use.

The third sentence states that this lance was already appeared around Three Kingdoms time by using a story of Cao Cao. The statement was came from Song Dynasty.

The rather strange thing is that the second sentence was came from 南朝梁, which was not focused on cavalry or even had many cavalries at all.

[crazyorc]

Momo WW ZT.