Normans as a faction?

**bgunter** · October 02, 2009, 03:58 PM

I was wandering if there was any mods for ss 6.1 to have the Normans as a faction? I did a few searches before I posted but I'm at work and could'nt spend long time on them. Also I was thinking about posting this in the sub mod area but it looks like that is mainly for sub mods already made if I'm sorry if I'm wrong and feel free to delete or move thread if you think it's pointless. Thank you.

**AnthoniusII** · October 02, 2009, 04:14 PM

Sicily normans do exist as a faction...
If you mean the english ones just think that the "mailed" knights was an effort to present them as "early' units...
An extencive english norman faction should activate a event that would change those units around 1200...
And afcourse a larger unit pool!

**Caesar Clivus** · October 02, 2009, 05:04 PM

No there are no submods that include the Normans as a faction. Awellesley's english roster submod does include some norman units as part of the english roster. That's about as close as you'll get.

And yes, I'll move this to the submods forum

**Tacitursa** · October 02, 2009, 05:08 PM

Normans are already a faction in SS, Mainly England and sicily.

As for a pre-norman conquest mod i dont think there are any. I dont think it would really work either too many small factions like vikings and kingdom of wessex with 2-3 very big powerfull factions.

France would steam roll normans in 3 turns and the abbassids controlled pretty much everything in the middle east and africa. After 50 turns or so the campaign map will be controlled by France , abbasids and ERE

**bgunter** · October 02, 2009, 06:39 PM

Thanks all for the quick answers and sorry about that caesar thanks for moving it

**Sir Walter** · October 03, 2009, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Wizav85

Normans are already a faction in SS, Mainly England and sicily.

As for a pre-norman conquest mod i dont think there are any. I dont think it would really work either too many small factions like vikings and kingdom of wessex with 2-3 very big powerfull factions.

France would steam roll normans in 3 turns and the abbassids controlled pretty much everything in the middle east and africa. After 50 turns or so the campaign map will be controlled by France , abbasids and ERE

I think it'd be fantastic. Pre-Norman Conquest, the Capetians were too weak to steam roll anyone, the Byzantines were waxing strong but the Turks were on their way, and the Abbasids were in decline. Also, the Kingdom of Wessex was actually the Kingdom of England at that point, 1060 is post-Danelaw after Harthacanute's death.

Oh, and you could have the Emirate of Sicily from before Guiscard's invasion

**Tacitursa** · October 03, 2009, 12:41 PM

Well if the mod started from 880 and spanned to 1066

Abbasibs on turn 1 would be at the height of their empire and 6-7 times stronger than anyone else on the map and turkey was completely controlled by ERE

And the kingdom of wessex wasnt the kingdom of england untill 927 before that Danish viking controlled most of England.

France wasnt controlled by the capetians either it was the frankish kingdoms and Charlemagne and later his song louis I. The capetians didnt come around untill 987

**Sir Walter** · October 03, 2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Wizav85

Well if the mod started from 880 and spanned to 1066

Abbasibs on turn 1 would be at the height of their empire and 6-7 times stronger than anyone else on the map and turkey was completely controlled by ERE

And the kingdom of wessex wasnt the kingdom of england untill 927 before that Danish viking controlled most of England.

France wasnt controlled by the capetians either it was the frankish kingdoms and Charlemagne and later his song louis I. The capetians didnt come around untill 987

I was talking about 1060. In 880, the Carolingian kings were (even) less powerful than the Capetians, the Fatimids and Umayyads were independent of the Abbasids, the Kingdom of Wessex was the Kingdom of All Britain under Athelstan and the Byzantines being in control of Turkey makes for more challenge against the Abbasids. Oh, and the Holy Roman Empire was about to become very powerful...

**Deadly Rabbit** · October 02, 2009, 10:37 PM

Not quite sure that it would be that cut and dried. Seljuq turks would be emergent with an impact comparable to the mongols. Kievan Rus were powerful, the Holy Roman Empire was powerful and yet to develop it's long running feud with the papacy, the English monarchy was strong. I think the normans as an emergent faction spawning in south italy and southern england at particula times could be really interesting. I'd personally like to see a circa 1000 ad mod.

**Gnostiko** · October 07, 2009, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Deadly Rabbit

Not quite sure that it would be that cut and dried. Seljuq turks would be emergent with an impact comparable to the mongols

Not sure about Seljuq power in the middle east and Persia, but from the Roman Empire's point of view...debateable

Oh how I'd love to see a mod set just that much further back in time!

**Sir Walter** · October 07, 2009, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostiko

Not sure about Seljuq power in the middle east and Persia, but from the Roman Empire's point of view...debateable

Oh how I'd love to see a mod set just that much further back in time!

Agreed! 1060, or maybe 1000 AD

**Gnostiko** · October 07, 2009, 04:17 PM

I'd say more 1025-1040

**Sir Walter** · October 08, 2009, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Gnostiko

I'd say more 1025-1040

Why? 1000 sounds good, but that was just when Poland and Hungary became Christian I guess...

**Gnostiko** · October 10, 2009, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by M.P.C.U.

Why? 1000 sounds good, but that was just when Poland and Hungary became Christian I guess...

Simply because we're getting closer to the more recognisable European states, the closer to 1100 we put it. Plus, at 1000 the Roman Empire should be able to wipe the floor with anyone. Setting it after Basil's death should put the Romans in a situation where they're slowly declining, but are in a position to reverse that decline.

**Deadly Rabbit** · October 16, 2009, 08:23 PM

I like post 1025 as well. The normans first appeared as a military force in South Italy from 1016. The Seljuq turks appear in the east during this period as well. You could have a strong saxon kingdom of england, with Denmark and Norway both casting their eyes in that direction. Principality of Wales (Gruffyd ap Hywel, about this time I think?) Even Ireland was an actual united kingdom. The HRE under the Ottonians was strong, France was weak and disunited but with vast potential, the Ummayads in Spain were in chaos but not irretrievable. The Romans were slipping into a period of decline, but still mounted impressive campaigns in Italy and Sicily, not to mention still controlling Antioch, all Anatolia and the Balkans.