6.2 difficulty a little too much.

[Etimos]

Ok, so I started a late era campaign as the teutonic order.

I can barely afford the army I have right now, let alone the cost of training new units, but I do my best to train up an army to take Turku, as it's the only rebel settlement I have access to. I'm rapidly going bankrupt just from this effort, and can't seem to build AND have an army at the same time, but neither can i have a respectable army unless I build, nor build if I dont have an army to defend myself.

Turn seven, Poland and Novgorod declare war on me at the same time, and assault all three of my cities simultaneously with full stacks of units, while Lithuania is waiting to attack Konigsberg in the event that Poland fails, which they cant because I only have five unit cards in that city, because I cant afford to train any more. As it stands, All my unit cards are garrissoned in my three cities (one castle, one large town, one fortress), and I am not physically capable of defending any of them.

So basically, turn 7, game over, and there's nothing I could possibly have done to prevent it.

This isnt a challenge, this is just beating myself over the head with a plank and calling it 'fun'. I like a little added difficulty, and I love the smarter AI and other stuff, but enough is enough. The game should not be over at turn 7 regardless of what you do to fix it.

As it stands now, I am forced to use create_unit Ritterbruder 9 9 9 9 at least once per turn just to keep from losing all my cities, because I simply cant afford to maintain the modest army I have right now, let alone build enough units to defend myself. Hell, I dont have enough units to defend ONE of my cities against ONE of my current enemies, let alone all of them, and I'm still bankrupt. My money is literally four digits into the red, I cant build anything, I'm hemorraging money left and right, and poland just sent two full stacks of units into my territory, and to make matters worse, Lithuania is at war with me now too.

Long story short (too late), there's nothing fun about a completely one-sided fight between a cricket and a size 14 work boot.

I like the other changes to 6.2, including whatever change it was that made the turns go faster (because the old one was just unplayable. Every turn took five minutes just waiting for the AI to make their move), and I like the recruitment fixes and other stuff, and the battle AI is nice, but all that is just frills if I cant play the game for more than ten turns. Is there anything that can be done to fix this?

[Byg]

Lower your difficulty level.

[Etimos]

Lower your difficulty level.

Will that make it stupid easy though? It's on medium right now, but I dont want to drop it down to easy and have it just turn into a brainless puddle of mud.

[Warriorset]

Dont play a late era campaign as the Teutonic Order. Instead, play a bigger faction like France, HRE or Fatimids and build your economy

[Etimos]

Dont play a late era campaign as the Teutonic Order. Instead, play a bigger faction like France, HRE or Fatimids and build your economy

That doesnt really address the problem, does it? Why make the faction playable if it's not realistically playable. Besides, I LIKE the Teutonic Order.

[ferretboy]

Give your self more money and increase kings purse in desc strat file then start new game

[Caesar Clivus]

The TO campaign is always supposed to be difficult. Like Byg said, reduce the difficulty level. 6.2 on M/M is the same difficulty as 6.1 on VH/VH.

[soulson]

I managed to survive the TO campaign on h/vh. Be smart with who you ally with(find some one to help fight the same enemy) and be sure to call a crusade ASAP on vilinus. It is very challenging though.

[Deadly Rabbit]

Historically the Teutonic Order failed to achieve it's aims; It's attempts to build a baltic empire at the expense of Lithuania, Poland and Russia were all defeated (Lake Peipus, Tannenberg). It's territories in Latvia and Estonia were absorbed by Denmark/Sweden, and eventually only east prussia remained, converted into a secular state and became eventually the kingdom of Prussia.
So, if playing Teutonic, expect a challenge not too different from that of the Romans in late era; Back to the wall fighting on all sides, against all comers. It is a winnable campaign though, but you'll struggle to make progress for a looonnng time. Crusades are your friend.

[CrossSide]

What did you expect? you are the Teutonic Order, an invader and a danger for the surrounding lands. I think the new difficult is great, the AI isn't stupid anymore and when I manage to get an Herioc Victory I really enjoy it. MTW was no challenge, but thanks to the great mods it is now, and I'm enjoying it

[KittySN]

Though I use up nearly all of my treasury every turn, I'm on turn 7 and doing fine on VH/VH. I'm stealing a few settlements from Poland at the moment and I'm currently going for one more castle, then I'll turn inwards and annihilate Lithuania. No crusades, no threats from the pope (not that it'd matter where my faction is located), just a little "dark-minded" strategy. Cake!

Whenever I hear "difficult" and Total War together, I have to investigate! (Maybe just in bugs? Ha!)

[Byg]

I see you still play SPQR? Nice game.

[jpf51684]

For a faction like TO you really need to have a very strong understanding of the game mechanics [economy, reputation, etc] as well as be able to win heroic victories [sound tactics and maneuvering on the battlefield]. From the way you describe things if you want to really enjoy your TO campaign you're going to need to play a few campaigns as an easier faction to gain some experience.

Consider the fact that you are being challenged a good thing. Now learn how to overcome.

[Gogolometro]

Take the next fortress near Konisberg from Poland. That will slow Poland, your main enemy and will provide you goo troops. Take Turku the main fortress, neutral, far from Novgorod, easy to defend. Will offer you horse arcers, good units for counter danes and polish. Crusade Lituania, will give you free upkeep, experience, money and papal favor. Get the island from Baltica. Good for trade and a refugee. To defend with 7-8 units in fortress versus any atackkers is easy if you use wise your units, even if atacker have full stacks. Your units are the best units in the area. Dont be scared, Gracul mod is very good, imagine how hard is in RR/RC with teutons.

[KittySN]

The last 2 posts are wise advice! Give them a try if you're stuck!

I see you still play SPQR? Nice game.

My favorite RTW mod! The essence might be waves of stacks and enemies, but it's a lot of fun if you're playing by extra house rules like "no lost battles or provinces"... Paranoia's at a premium!

[retep219]

Some tips on the TO from my campaigns:

1. Blitz Lithuania fast. You NEED their lands in order to be able to concentrate on other fronts. Use spies to open the gates, if necessary. The starting king's stack alone should be able to handle the first Lithuanian city (Hrodna?), and probably Mensk as well. Train the heir-elect's stack, when it is up to twelve units use both stacks to take Vilnius. Spies on the gate are helpful. If Vilnius isn't garrisoned well, take it ASAP. Lithuania should be down before turn ten.

2. Keep your reputation high. The TO can not afford to have many enemies...Poland, Lithuania, and Novgoord hate your guts from the start. Try to release small armies if you capture most of them, and don't sack THAT many cities. Never sack Catholic cities... Also, if you capture a Novgorod city and can't hold it, you can always give it to the Pope.

3. When dealing with Poland, move carefully. By the time that Lithuania is dealt with, you probably should have gotten a diplomat down to Rome. (Personally, I just teleported the diplomat. I just got lazy, and, in real life, the Teutonic Order would probably have been able to send emissaries to the pope without having to wait for ten years... You should have enough rep with the pope to be able to fail a few missions before he actually sends you a serious excommunication warning. Use this time to take Poland's border cities, ESPECIALLY THORN. You have to take that fortress. Don't take Stettin, the HRE will backstab you if you take that city. By the time you get a serious warning, Poland should be weakened. Send one of your armies back to Vilnius to await the inevitable Novgorodian onslaught, keep another army near your next Polish target.

4. When dealing with Novgorod, be even more careful. Novgorod has powerful armies and many of them, most of which are loaded with cavarly. I found it prudent to sacrifice a city in order to get my army around theirs and invade the faction's heartland. Pskov/Polotsk (depending on where Novgorod concentrates its armies) and Novgorod should fall. You'll need good battlefield skills to ensure this. Sacking both cities and destroying every building inside will help your finances tremendously. After you are done with the city, gift it to the Papal States... Your rep will rise. Quickly. Though it is a bit cheap.

Some of these tips may be a bit too suited to my own TO campaigns, both of which were conducted with RR/RC. So I'm not sure if they would apply in every scenario. I'll also admit I was lucky...in the first campaign I managed to take out Poland VERY quickly, the Papal States did not threaten excommuncation and I got an alliance with Hungary/Kiev Rus, both of whom helped. Second game Novgorod lost a massive battle outside Smolensk that involved four family members, including the king and heir, and was destroyed on turn 20. My first game died on turn thirty due to CTD, my second is ongoing...so I know nothing about the TO lategame.

[The Noble Lord]

My favorite one would be VH/VH because it looks like you been playing against human opponent sometimes. That's how good the game is actually.

[King Siegfried]

With the TO, you seriously have to plan every step of your conquest. I played the HRE then the TO, and both campaigns play similarly - you're surrounded by potential enemies! You genuinely have to block off entire fronts from invasion via alliances or strong borders, or you WILL get sandwiched.

In my TO campaign, I quickly allied with the HRE, Hungary and Denmark. I called a crusade on Vilnius and used Crusader mercs to lay waste to Lithuania while I sent my starter-armies to secure Turku. Novgorod really wanted Turku, but with my fortress walls protected by Ballista Towers, they could never breach my inner walls. Full stack after full stack fell outside and within Turku; so many armies fell that Novgorod went bankrupt and I was able to sue for peace. After that, Novgorod became my ally, and I kept relations up with money so they wouldn't betray me.

With Novgorod my ally, I could instead focus on my war with Poland. Using siege equipment, I took Thorn immediately, and then played a decisive, defensive war against Poland. Polish militia are no match for Teutonic knights, and thus I simply obliterated Poland's cities and lesser castles. Then I divided Poland between my Hungarian and German allies.

I personally then invaded Scandinavia, but you can do what you want.

[crazyguy1916]

Wait a sec, is the battle map AI allot more intelligent on VH on this mod as compared to VH on vanilla?

[CrossSide]

Yes it is.