Army of Death - Vote Now

[Twist of Cain]

Oh, I don't know, what about a horde nation? Maybe Aragorn's faction gets one of those nice little decision popups, "Release the Oathbreakers (Yes/No/Retry)" and if he hiccups and doesn't click Yes, they get all medieval on everyone's arses?

[Hambone]

I see something wrong with it, it's stupid. This is a LOTR mod, hence it tries to stay reasonably close to the lore. There is no basis in either the films or books to have an "undead faction". It's a stupid idea that does not belong in a LOTR mod, if you want to have an "undead faction" make a mod for Warhammer, they have 2 undead factions for you to choose from. You know what else would be "fun"? Having an Imperial guard faction from warhammer 40K stomping all of middle earth. It would be fun yes, but it does not belong in a LOTR themed mod, just like some Zombie undead faction does not belong.

All of these are reasonable objections. A shame devils advocate did not raise any of them. I do not have a problem with resistance to an army fo the dead faction. If people feel it is an unreasonable idea, fine. More power to them. But when you post simply to ridicule someone's idea with sarcasm and contempt, that is when I take offence.

[Devils_Advocate]

Do you feel like your jokes are funny? Just curious.

I do not see anything inherently wrong with an undead faction. It would add variety. Hell, it might even be fun. But nooooooo, it does not fit in with the tolkien lore. There is nothing wrong with thinking that either, but expressing it as you do, treating the very idea of possibly implementing something that is possibly fun but not lined up with the lore, with contempt and derisiveness that you would show the suggestion of running a car with cheese, makes me sick. For heavens sake man, it is a video game, and this is a forum, if you have nothing to add to the discussion but your sarcasm then do not post.

Harumph.

A joke? Seemingly I haven´t got my own punch-line.

If you would know my altitude towards such things then you would understand my reaction. This idea is so far beyond the purpose of this Mod that I am not going to argue on a rational base.
You can come up with suggestions À la BfME in the sub-mod section; I won´t argue against nor being sarcastic there.
Video game? Of course; sadly people try to justify their affinity for such things by calling it 'diversity', 'adding variety' etc. Then let´s us make spiderfactions, spider-riders and all other crap, indeed very diverse - voila BfME; still a video game? Technically yes.

Furthermore that statement was so dramatically and funny stated that I had to laugh (and still to grin), really. Nothing against the poster, I still respect him the same as before.

I have a clear vision where this Mod should head to and as long as I am in the team, although a very tiny quantity (until we can make costums) I will do everything to keep the mod 'clean' (although I can´t make any decisions), even if brutal sarcasm is needed; probably I am sometimes crossing the border.

I won´t justify my position any further, my point is clear.

[Wolster]

Im sad to say Devils_Advocate whilst i have nothing against you, I can well understand why you are not higher in the organaisation of this mod, given the level of your responses & as for respect you started with none & now your in negative teritory.

Well Done

I must say what a wonderful mod it is at this juncture however & heap praise on the rest of the team involved.

[Muffer Nl]

I do not see anything inherently wrong with an undead faction. It would add variety. Hell, it might even be fun. But nooooooo, it does not fit in with the tolkien lore.

The whole point of this mod was from the beginning to make a computer game as close to lore as they could possibly get in the limits of Game-balance and game engine limitations of M2TW. That is why a Undead-faction would be inherently wrong in this mod it woulde be completely against that goal.

That would be killing the hope, sir. Why would you want to do that?

because in my time on this forum I have seen dozens of threads going on about implenting these units. This would (Hopefully) reduce the amount of threads and help visiters find more important threads quicker. It's sda to see how many times the Ask Questions moved to the second page and even sometimes the third.

[Æsir]

The whole point of this mod was from the beginning to make a computer game as close to lore as they could possibly get in the limits of Game-balance and game engine limitations of M2TW. That is why a Undead-faction would be inherently wrong in this mod it woulde be completely against that goal.

Firstly, I do not agree with idea of faction of Dead, but I find lore purist arguments a little double-dealing. For example, according to lore the flag of Stewards Gondor must be plain white:

"... and upon the White Tower of the citadel the standard of the Stewards, bright argent like snow in the sun, bearing no charge nor device." (From Lord of the rings, "The Steward and the King" )

Still we have blue (not even black [sic!]) banners with white tree. Where is lore here?

EDIT: And if you sacrifice lore for good looking Gondorian flag, then I see no reason, why you can jeer on other suggestions that are contrary the lore (like blue flag of Gondor) or even not contrary but only not fully confimed by lore (like Easterling chariots in the era of War of the Ring).

[Evan MF]

Im sad to say Devils_Advocate whilst i have nothing against you, I can well understand why you are not higher in the organaisation of this mod, given the level of your responses & as for respect you started with none & now your in negative teritory.

Well Done

I must say what a wonderful mod it is at this juncture however & heap praise on the rest of the team involved.

Well I'm not sure coming up with such a radical, out of the blue (for lord of the Rings) idea will ensure you any future hope of working on this mod. People will not take you seriously unless you amend your reputation.

I am not trying to defend Devils_Advocate, but warning you to remember before you say something, that you may get a rude reaction; as has happened to me when I was new.

[Jean=A=Luc]

C'mon people, don't start getting "silly" on me over this. We all know the team will never put an "undead faction" (or any such severely lore breaching element) in the official version so there's no use arguing about it.

At most they might decide to do something similar to what the FA:TW team did when they created a Roman campaign in Middle-Earth but that would of course be optional and mostly just for laughs.

Other than that there's only submods.

[Muffer Nl]

Firstly, I do not agree with idea of faction of Dead, but I find lore purist arguments a little double-dealing. For example, according to lore the flag of Stewards Gondor must be plain white:

Still we have blue (not even black [sic!]) banners with white tree. Where is lore here?

EDIT: And if you sacrifice lore for good looking Gondorian flag, then I see no reason, why you can jeer on other suggestions that are contrary the lore (like blue flag of Gondor) or even not contrary but only not fully confimed by lore (like Easterling chariots in the era of War of the Ring).

I do not speak out against chariots as they are, in my opinion, not against the lore as Wain Riders were mentionend and as I see it only their attacking force was destroyed. Not all of them. The flag of gondor is not a big deal in a game. It was placed there to enhance the game because a white banner looked bad (The team said they tried it). I mean a difrent color banner is much less of a deal then a complete undefeatable nation!

[Æsir]

C'mon people, don't start getting "silly" on me over this. We all know the team will never put an "undead faction" (or any such severely lore breaching element) in the official version so there's no use arguing about it.

At most they might decide to do something similar to what the FA:TW team did when they created a Roman campaign in Middle-Earth but that would of course be optional and mostly just for laughs.

Other than that there's only submods.

Of course, but it's all about attitude - if you have lore breaking Gondorian flag, it's strange that team member without reasoning is jeering at other lore breaking suggestions. Am I wrong?

[Lordinquisitor]

Of course, but it's all about attitude - if you have lore breaking Gondorian flag, it's strange that team member without reasoning is jeering at other lore breaking suggestions. Am I wrong?

I don`t know, but in my book making an new banner, isn`t as lore breaking as making the army of the dead an own, playable, faction.

Though i`d still like the real gondorian banner.

[OfficerJohn]

Æsir, please, not the "when we break with lore here, why don't break with lore EVERYWHERE?" logic.

RTW does have that classic feel, yeah, and I like the era, the mods (and the modability), not to mention the challenge with some factions... sometimes...
AI should've gotten an overhaul, but M2TW and ETW can't really say they're better there... I think...

[Danny_K_1]

Hasn't this thread served its purpose?

[Jean=A=Luc]

Hasn't this thread served its purpose?

The quality of discussion definitely has dropped but there's no need to close as long as there isn't a flame war over the lore issue. And please don't start ibtl-ing, it won't do any good and it'll just piss me off.

[Æsir]

As I said before - there are not clear evidences was Army of Dead physical or purely spiritual. So, if Barrow dwights and Nazguls were physical - do you have any proof that similar beings - Army of Dead were not? And if not - why all that transpas their realm are dead?

EDIT: I am not supporting idea of Dead faction.

[Hambone]

A joke? Seemingly I haven´t got my own punch-line.

If you would know my altitude towards such things then you would understand my reaction. This idea is so far beyond the purpose of this Mod that I am not going to argue on a rational base.
You can come up with suggestions À la BfME in the sub-mod section; I won´t argue against nor being sarcastic there.
Video game? Of course; sadly people try to justify their affinity for such things by calling it 'diversity', 'adding variety' etc. Then let´s us make spiderfactions, spider-riders and all other crap, indeed very diverse - voila BfME; still a video game? Technically yes.

Furthermore that statement was so dramatically and funny stated that I had to laugh (and still to grin), really. Nothing against the poster, I still respect him the same as before.

I have a clear vision where this Mod should head to and as long as I am in the team, although a very tiny quantity (until we can make costums) I will do everything to keep the mod 'clean' (although I can´t make any decisions), even if brutal sarcasm is needed; probably I am sometimes crossing the border.

I won´t justify my position any further, my point is clear.

I have no problem with your point. I have a problem with the way you make it. I hope that I am being clear.

[Twist of Cain]

There's a difference between responding with "I disagree that this idea would fit based on reasons A, B and C," and responding with "LOL STUPID." The "LOL STUPID" option does not contribute anything useful for others to evaluate the idea with, or enhance the discussion, it's only useful to evalute the personality of the one saying this.


Edit: Well, that, and trolling.

[zorro59]

But why Barrow dwights dont get included?
The lore sais that they exist, evryone agrees, it could be used as a "savage" faction, unplayable...

[Muffer Nl]

They were toom much of a trouble to make acording to KK. They are only present in very small numbers in one area.

[Jean=A=Luc]

But why Barrow dwights dont get included?
The lore sais that they exist, evryone agrees, it could be used as a "savage" faction, unplayable...

Pretty much for the same reason Tom Bombadil or Old Man Willow weren't included as "factions".

But even if the team wanted to include them they would hardly be a priority (they aren't exactly a critical gameplay element) but it's quite possible they'll get in at some point, most likely as a kind of an event rather than actual "fighting units".

KK did mention they were developing a campaign with strong role playing elements that's going to be pretty unique among in m2tw so who knows what they'll come up with.