The Ottoman Empire - Information & Discussion

[Lazy Knight]

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EMERGENT FACTION: MAMELUKES EGYPT AND MAMELUKES BAGHDAD

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Ottoman Empire
The Ottoman Empire is a huge Empire featuring many different ways of warfare. One similarity holds through all of them though: The absence of western drill.

The Ottoman Army consists mainly of local Irregular infantry, be it Bosnian Panduks, Anatolian Bandits, Kurdish Skirmishers or Arabian Mercenaries. All those units equipped and fielded by the Empire know how to fight on their own, yet will have trouble when faced with the closed and drilled battle Lines of modern 18th century Europe. In addition to these plentiful irregular soldiers, the Jannissaries still hold to power at the Bospurus, highly skilled soldiers, but rooted in their centuries old tradition. It is not until the later Nizam - i - Cedid reforms that the Ottomans get access to western styled troops.
The Turkish artillery is, like most of eastern artillery, large and immobile; unlike the Mughals though, the ottomans soon get access to regular foot artillery. They also field some specialties in the field of explosives, like the Abus gun (Essentially a handcannon of old, firing a 3 pound shot) and the heavier Calibres mounted on Camels.

Turkish Cavalry is, like the infantry a mix of local light troops. Tartar Bowmen, Camels and Mameluks are all available to the Ottoman. This is completed with some trained cavalry featuring lancers, regular cavalry and skirmishers.

List of Skins

• Abus Gunners - Nizam and the Ottoman Realism Team
• Bashi Bazouks - Danova

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• Barbary Corsairs - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar #
• Azab Infantry - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar #

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• Azab Musketeers - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar #

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(You can see the Barbary Corsairs second row in the Banner, and Bashi Bazouks to the far left)

[Lazy Knight]

RESERVED FOR
MAMELUKES INFORMATION

[Goutlard]

The Ottoman Empire has great new skins but I think it lacks the diversity of costumes and colors Janissaries had [Green, Blue and Red mainly] and the Ottoman Timarli Sipahis were still knight-like armoured units, wereas many other cavalry just stopped using armours as these became pretty uneficient [they can stop musket bullets, right, but these such armours really too expensive to equip most horsemen]

[Flikitos]

As I said to Don, I think that I will make a little sub_mod for Ottoman Empire. That faction really need to be review in order to see more exotism in Etw.

[Goutlard]

Thanks sir, you can have my help if you want, as I did a sub_mod to Ottoman Realism Mod, I didn't get the rights from Nizam to publish or whatever as I don't have yet enough models for all new units but I can help you for unit names [description maybe, but my English is sometimes just not enough], and editing the stats.

[Flikitos]

If you have pictures for documentation it would be enough I think, and a possible generic roster of the 18th century units!

[Keyser]

I posted this in the persian thread but there are a few glimpse at ottoman late troops too.
The mural paintings are from the late XVIIIth century.

Those posts in the vestigia vetustatis might interest you regarding the persian faction (as well as the ottoman in fact).

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post10736539

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2#post10736542

Those are murals from the Shaki khans palace in Azerbaïdjan and represent both sefevids and ottomans forces battling each other.

The palace was built in the late XVIIIth century and the opponents are probably represented according to contemporary fashion rather than historically, but that's still an interesting source. For later units style maybe.
The sefevids are represented like azerbaidjanis from the late XVIIIth for instance (furs hat, lot of firearms and "cherkesska" style dress) but also with other troops types and dress.

[Goutlard]

@ Flikitos, I sent a pretty long PM concening the Ottoman Army during the 1650-1810 era, there are damn many units but as I said (if the forum didn't have a problem) only few of them are important, but now you have an overview of the whole army and pictures I could find. Don't worry I am not mad or sadistic and sent a such overview not to say that "oh crap this unit is missing we neeeeed it !" but so that you have a better view of what is undone and what is historically wrong. I mean some new models and editing the existing units' stats would be enough to make the Ottomans all right, more diverse and more historically accurate. Feel free to use what you want in it !

Edit : I found a great pic of the Reformed Ottoman Army in early 19th C, First line is the unis before accepting european Dress, and second after.

Piyade = Infantry
Suvari = Cavalry
Basi = Head of (bin = 1000, yuz = 100)
Topçu = Canonneer
Humbaraci = Grenadier ?
Mizika = Drummer
Deniz = Sea
Subayi = Officer Of
Subay = Officer
Er = Lowest Rank Soldier
Eri = Lowest rank soldier of ...

[wangrin]

EGYPT :
Illustrations of Egyptians and Ottomans during the Invasion of Egypt by Napoleon Bonaparte


Illustrations of Egyptians and Ottomans during the Invasion of Egypt by Napoleon Bonaparte - The Mameluke


Mameluke in full armour, early 19th century

[Goutlard]

EGYPT :
Illustrations of Egyptians and Ottomans during the Invasion of Egypt by Napoleon Bonaparte


Illustrations of Egyptians and Ottomans during the Invasion of Egypt by Napoleon Bonaparte - The Mameluke


Mameluke in full armour, early 19th century

The two mameluke's presenting miniature pics are the same !
Awe some pictures !

[wangrin]

Oups

Sorry, I've edited the wrong picture.

[Goutlard]

I was wondering if there was any graphical improvement since the bêta concerning the Ottomans.
I am yet playing this faction and knowing the history of that country in detail, I feel like CA failed making it.

Indian dancers during the footages, ahistorical units (Semenys ? Isarelys ? What'da hell is that ? It didn't ever exist right ?), unrealistic army uniforms, (crap they gave marines uniforms to Beylik Janissaries, I didn't even believe it was possible to be so far from reality about that...) unrealistic army system (kapikulu divided in ocaks and so on...).

The military reforms are nearly not represented. (Janissaries are better than Nizam-I-Cedids ? Well Nizams were trained like superior line infantry in the late period and Janissaries were mostly corrupted and old-fashioned excluding the Beyliks and the Sultan's Bostanci & Solak Guards that were still awesome, but they only represent 1/3 of the whole janissaries)

I am anyway working on a new version of Ottoman Realism Mod, but as I am the last one keeping the mod it doesn't really advances.

You have yet done awesome work concerning the Ottomans, but still some more minor details would have been nice to include, the models are still 80% the old native ones and some units should be added to really represent the huge unit diversity and huge military system that the army had.

When will the turk's turn come ?

Bostanci Janissaries :
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7FRU99K0j5E/T1UeYbXGJHI/AAAAAAAAAuQ/3YBF0lbFZQw/s1600/102_8865.JPG

Nizam-I-Cedids : (yes their hats were based on the Bostanci, Bostanci Janissaries were the supercream of the cream in the army !)
http://www.antikalar.com/v2/images/konu/konu0404-07x.JPG

[Don504]

Sooner than you think is all that I will say

[wangrin]

Thanks to Prince of Essling thread (Napoleon: Total War General Discussion > Historical Research Center > Useful websites - covering Uniforms, Flags, Naval, Maps, Downloadable books, Orders of battle, Paintings, etc), a very interesting link about late Ottoman troops (Nizam) : Draft Book on Ottoman Uniforms 1800 till 1918

Some interesting plates :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[PikeStance]

Awesome finds Wangrin,... I smell great masterpieces on the horizon.

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[Goutlard]

Joli
Concerning the names in your picture :
-Bostandjees = Bonstancı
-Bimbashee/Bimbachi = Binbaşı (means head of 1.000) = Major (In both french and english)
-Bash Bimashee = Baş Binbaşı (means head of the Binbaşı)
-Youzbashee = Yüzbaşı (means head of 100) = army captain
-Sekban-i-Cedid = Sekban-ı-Cedid
-Moulazeem = Mülazım = lieutenant
-Miralai = I am sure there is a mistake
-'pink' regt Bonstandjees = Bonstancı
-Cavus = Çavus (Sergeant)

Sekban-ı-Cedid = new army created after the Nizam-ı-Cedid, in 1808 and disbanded in late 1808

Nizam-ı-Cedid = first reformed army, the Janissaries made them disband

[wangrin]

Some links :

1600 TILL 1800 JANISSARY CORPS
TRANSITION FROM THE JANISSARY TO THE OTTOMAN NEW MODEL ARMY 1807 & 1826
THE FIRST MODERN OTTOMAN ARMY UNIFORMS 1800 TILL 1826
JANISSARY PERIOD CAVALRY

[jo the greek]

From my small exspiernce i find ottoman a Chalenge for the battlemap.

They lack in the start any suitable infantry to form a battle line in the typical way
their artillery slow and cavalry in many terms light and irregular.
And overall suffer from low morale.

But they seem to have some strong points to use.

They cavalry comes in big numbers good speed and use firearms and dismount.

So far i tend to think that their armies must use cavalry as basic unit in the start.
The infantry must hold always a defence stance in top hills behind barricades.

And about infantry so far
it seems the best infantry in early era you can get on your hands is Albanians bashi basouks
good melee bad reloading time medium morale . But if used with carefully avoid beign flanked or charged by cavalry they can pick a good fight with enemies infantry .
If you choose more reloading time and less melee then you have sekbans.
And forgot to tell that all the infantry gets light infantry doctorine which is a good asset to use.

I have to refer although problematic using those ottoman bigs guns with their unique grape shot are good in defencive role.



Enough for now (i will go and play to learn more lol)

[Lazy Knight]

yes, definitely.

When fighting against Persians, or Chechens, it is pretty ok. But once you face the Austrians or Poles...
Their cavalry can, espacially in light infantry formation, tear through your troops, it's not nice. And their Line Regiments aren't defeated so easily as the eastern mobs. It's a pretty hard time.

[The Vicar]

I don't know that they're terribly underpowered.

I did get slaughtered by LK in a MP game. Russia (me) vs Ottomans (LK).

It wasn't pretty. If LK had saved the replay he could have posted it all over the forums for people to laugh at how bad I lost.