Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112
Results 221 to 228 of 228

Thread: Sweden - Information & Discussion

  1. #221
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Regnum Sweorum et Gothorum
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Really looking forward to it, I need my Caroleans.
    A shame nobody made a submod for it like with Prussia, but it's no problem.

  2. #222
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
    Citizen Magistrate

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Electorate of Hannover
    Posts
    2,441

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin5790 View Post
    Well, at least you will be revisiting the early period as it feels a bit unfinished. So I will wait patiently, though considering the massive undertaking with RoTR, that may be a very long time.

    Until then might I give a bit of history for the uniforms for that period specifically that you may or may not know.

    The standard uniform for the Infantry and Cavalry in 1700 was no different to the uniforms the French and British (and indeed most of Western Europe), only in Blue and Yellow.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/6q87JLxjGyGKTZYB8 - The British Uniform in 1700 as a reference.

    The iconic uniform of the Caroleans with the Turnbacks isn't thought to have been introduced until the m/1706 pattern uniform, which was mostly just an improvement to the older uniform being worn. Even so, with the lack of Mass Production at that time most of the regiments on campaign wouldn't have been issued with them before Poltava, meaning that the first units that would have received the new uniforms would be the reconstituted regiments after Poltava.

    Though in a game setting just using the m/1706 uniform makes a lot of sense for ease of modding, especially since that pattern of uniform would be relatively unchanged (only minor alterations) until 1765 when it would take on a more Prussian look (essentially what you have in the mod already, though the could do with a bit of an update)

    I do hope any of the above helps you guys. Keep up the good work
    Thank you, this will be helpful in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldgrimr View Post
    Really looking forward to it, I need my Caroleans.
    A shame nobody made a submod for it like with Prussia, but it's no problem.
    And yes a submod would be cool but sadly noone in our team can create one as we have enough to do with RotR.

    Btw any help on Swedish tech-tree would really be appreciated. We are looking for special Military /Philosophical / government / arts developments in Sweden in the 18th century. For examples look at this post where we presented the Saxon and Danish tech-trees.

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  3. #223

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Well, here are my thought's on how the Swedish military tree should work.

    At the beginning, all of the units wear the early coat I mentioned above.
    For the Infantry = Militia, Garrison, Pikemen and Musketeers
    For the Cavalry = Dragoons, Guard/Elite Dragoons and Drabants
    For Artillery = the lighter caliber guns that can be moved around quickly.

    1) For the Pikemen and Musketeers, they should have really high morale and melee attack stats for early game units and an ability to cause fear (I know this is a special ability in Napoleon, but I don't know if it is a thing in Empire) so that they can quickly break the enemy infantry. The Musketeers should have the animation of using a sword when in close combat as that was how they fought in the army before Poltava. Pikemen also fought with swords in close combat as the pike is an unwieldy close combat weapon at the best of times, but the pikes were in the charges to shock the enemy into running before the Swedes got close enough
    One thing I've noticed in this mod is how hard it is as the Swedes to expand as they can easily be at war with Russia, Poland, Denmark and Prussia (and Britain from time to time) all at the same time with practically no ability to recruit more troops because the cost of the units is so high and the rate of income is so low. So giving the Swedes the ability to almost immediately break the enemy line in a charge would allow for smaller forces to compete against a larger force and not take as many casualties and sticks pretty close to history.

    Obviously these units would be insanely expensive to buy, making them a precious resource in the early game that is cheaper to replenish than to replace.


    2) The Socket Bayonet should be a tier 1 research item for all nations in Europe except Sweden and Russia as the Plug bayonet was already going out of fashion by 1700. For the Swedes, the socket bayonet wasn't introduced until 1704 and that was only for the Grenadiers at first, still relying on the pike and sword in all close combat related. The Musketeers did eventually get the bayonet and so I think that tech should be a tier 2, requiring some other research to unlock it first or tier 3 item.

    3) Once the player gets to Tier 3, the infantry should change to a more standard type of army to simulate the loss at Poltava where the best troops were wiped out and they had to start again. So the high morale, melee and fear causing abilities are stripped away and the Turnback uniform gets introduced, but the unit gets much cheaper to buy and upkeep as a result and the old units get removed completely. Pikemen were still insisted upon by Charles XII, but in game they should become worthless units to your rosters.

    4) Dragoons were instructed to never fire their guns. They were always to charge into combat with sabres drawn. So the Dragoons should never have the ability to shoot. Also, like the infantry, the early version of these should be pretty badass as they were able to break most enemies on the charge taking very few casualties.

    5) The Swedes always tried to use the lighter artillery pieces because they followed in Gustavus Adolphus' method of moving the artillery around quickly to where it was needed. So I think the 3-Pounder Horse Artillery of the base game would be great for the Swedes alongside the 6-Pounder guns they also used on campaign.

    As the campaign progresses, if say you had Charles XII as a General unit (and if he was he should be at the head of a Drabant unit), if he dies in combat then the government should switch from an Absolute Monarchy to a Constitutional Monarchy as that is what happened after the Great Northern War.

    After the war, the government started to cut back on the army spending, buying cheaper weapons for the soldiers to use. For example in the Seven Years War the cavalry sabres were made out of really bad steel and the sabres were prone to breaking, or rusting. Sp perhaps by that point the Swedish army starts losing combat effectiveness might be cool. I don't know how to represent this fully, but if it can be done that would be cool.

  4. #224
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
    Citizen Magistrate

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Electorate of Hannover
    Posts
    2,441

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Thanks for this information. They will be helpful for the early era tech-trees.
    And as each era's units are independent of each other we will make the mid-era units stats definitely bad and the early and late era units severely better!
    Furthermore your idea with Charles XII is cool but sadly don't work as generals and minsters / kings are considered completely different characters and can't be locked together so far. So when the general dies, the minister lives on.
    Last edited by Quintus Hortensius Hortalus; July 21, 2019 at 08:48 AM.

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  5. #225
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
    Citizen Magistrate

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Electorate of Hannover
    Posts
    2,441

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Here is my first draft of the Swedish army tech-tree:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  6. #226

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Will the early version of the mod (or as I have suggested as the name "Ancien Regime") go past the 1783 start date of ROTR? If it doesn't then The Gustavian reforms should be a super late technology, since those uniforms weren't introduced until 1779 and probably took up to 5 years to outfit the whole army with it (if it took 3 years for Bernadotte to introduce a new uniform model in 1810 and a sizeable portion of the army still weren't issued with the new uniforms by the 1813 German Campaign, I doubt the Gustavian era would have done any better).

    So I feel that the switch in uniform would not be needed especially not at that late stage of the game.

    Aside from the more obvious ones, am not certain what the other techs are supposed to do, so I'm not able to comment on those (like the Pre-Carolean Reforms for example)
    If the early period of the mod does go past 1783 then that is fine, though I do wonder what purpose ROTR would serve then other than a just to that time period.

    Light Infantry I would make a Middle period unit as the Swedes started to emulate the other European nations in this regard during the Seven Years War, while the Jager can stay as a late period upgrade for them.

    Is the Frey-Corps supposed to be a sort of upgraded Militia unit? The Swedes never really instituted a mandatory Conscription and worked more as a reservist army. Men were happy to join the Indelta regiments whenever they could and the rest of the population was happy to not volunteer for service. As such, a Frei-corps was never a thing in the Swedish army. The first time Sweden ever truly recruited the civilian population en-mass was in 1808 during the Russo-Swedish War of 1808-09, but these new units were used to garrison places and free up the more professional elements to fight elsewhere.

  7. #227

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    Here's an idea for the Pikemen the Swedes need to have in the early part of the game.

    While they are obviously going to have to be very good in combat and in the charge specifically (since breaking the enemy as the Swedes charged was the main goal of the Carolingian tactics and the Pike) what if the Pikemen had the "Inspires Nearby Units" ability as well as a way to incentivise the player recruiting them and expanding the roster beyond just two different kinds of Musketeer units as v2.2.1b has at the moment.

  8. #228

    Default Re: Sweden - Information & Discussion

    In this site,
    http://www.holmback.se/bayonets/Notes-English/swed-Main.html


    it is written that "Socket Bayonet" is begun to be introduced from 1696. A m/1699 model of socket bayonet with a locking bolt (`Hållare') welded to the socket was produced as much as 9000 in 1699-1701. Though this was changed in 1701(a very strange design, where the previously successful concept was abandoned) and 1704(backed to the concept with a stud on the socket reintroduced by armourer Sjiöblad, and would be the basic bayonet model for the next 40 years).


    So I don't think that concept of 'Socket bayonet' is in tier 2/3. The production and introduction was already begun by Großer Nordischer Krieg even if with some confusion.



    This is the stud. The version of fixation was praised as the most firmly fixed and enduring against "shock of thrusting bodies of men/horses", compared with English/French version or German version of splitted socket (for various non-standardized caliber?).


Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •