Amerindians - Information & Discussion

[PikeStance]

Currently, we are working on European powers and moving eastward. Native Americans are scheduled to be the last addition to the mod. However, I would invite you to play this mod. We do value all feedback.

[Wolves In The Throne Room]

Downloading now.

I've been working on Colonialism 1600 with Geronimo and I am primarily a European enthusiast, but a trip earlier this month Yellowstone to hike in the backcountry, a trip to the Little Bighorn and then two audiobooks on the American Indian saga has me in full on Native mode

[Risasi]

Currently, we are working on European powers and moving eastward. Native Americans are scheduled to be the last addition to the mod. However, I would invite you to play this mod. We do value all feedback.

Glad to hear this mod is still actively being developed. I'm all for seeing some more representation of the Amerindian tribes in this mod, especially factions that I can play. I feel like they aren't well represented in other mods, because frankly it's hard to do with a groups of ostensibly semi-nomadic cultures, who practiced predominantly, asynchronous warfare.

[PikeStance]

Thanks!
There is considerable debate within the development team on which tribes to include and how best to represent them. I would love for you to share your point of view.

[wangrin]

Interesting internet site : Native Languages of the Americas: Native American Cultures
Resources per cultural groups : bibliography and internet links

[Risasi]

Thanks!
There is considerable debate within the development team on which tribes to include and how best to represent them. I would love for you to share your point of view.

Ha, too funny. I just saw your response to me from a year and a half ago!


Well, I am not sure whether or not you're still looking for feedback on how the Amerindians are represented? I just finished my Shogun 2 short campaign and was debating whether to go Rome II or Empire. I just tried playing Empire Vanilla and the battle bugs are frustratingly obnoxious. I think I shall give Imperial Splendour another install. I have all DLC, I think, including Warpath.

[Cro_Hunger999]

This thread is intended to contain various portraits of indian political figures, however, feel free to use it as a general thread for posting information on Indian Tribes.

Tribes:

• Iroquois League
• Cheyennes
• Cherokee
• Comanche
• Shawnee

Map of Indian Tribes:

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[Cro_Hunger999]

Cherokee



First Beloved Man: Cunne Shote (1738 - 1838)

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Grand Council of Chiefs

1. Great War Chief: Bloody Fellow

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2. Peace Chief: Incalatanga (1744 - 1807)

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3. War Woman: Nanyehi (1738 - 1822 or 1824)

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4. War Chief: Dragging Canoe (1738 - 1792)

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5. War Chief: Bob Benge (c. 1762 – 1794)

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Candidates:

1. Di'wali (1765 – 1839)

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2.

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[IMG][/IMG]

3. Estajoca (1763 - 1805)

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4.

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5.

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Cherokee scholars

Sequoyah (1767 - 1843)

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Cherokee envoys

Nanyehi (1738 - 1822 or 1824)

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Estajoca (1763 - 1805)

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[Cro_Hunger999]

Iroquois League



Grand Chief of the Six Nations: Thayendanegea (1743 – 1807)

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Grand Council of the Six Nations:

1. Head Chief: Karonghyontye (1745 - 18??)

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Colonel Guy Johnson (right) and Karonghyontye (left).

2. Chief of Treasury: Sagoyewatha (c. 1750 - 1830)

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3. Pine Tree Chief: Teyoninhokovrawen (b.c. 1760s - d.after 1826)

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4. War Chief: Sayenqueraghta (c. 1707 – 1786)

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5. War Chief: Kaiiontwa'kon (1732/1746 - 1836)

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Candidates:

1. Good Peter (1717 - 1793)

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2. Thaonawyuthe (born between 1737 and 1760, died 1859)

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3. Kayahsotaˀ (c.1725 - c.1794)

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4. Odeserundiye (c.1740s - 1811)

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5. The Infant—Chief of the Seneca Indians. 1792.

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Religious leaders

Sganyodaiyoˀ (1735 – 1815) was a Seneca religious leader of the Iroquois people.

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[onmy6]

This is very cool and very useful, Thanks

[Cro_Hunger999]

This is very cool and very useful, Thanks

Thank you very much! But hold your thanks because it isn't finished yet. After I complete researching a faction, I post it in the "[PREVIEW] Historical Characters" thread.

[Cro_Hunger999]

Cheyennes

Leader: ???

Ministers

1. Head: ???

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2. Treasury:

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[img][/img]

3. Justice: ???

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4. Army: ???

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5. Navy:

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[img][/img]

Candidates:

1. Sharitahrish

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2.

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3.

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4. ???

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5.

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[Cro_Hunger999]

Shawnee tribes

Grand Chief: Weyapiersenwah (c. 1743 – 1810)

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Succeeded in 1789 by: Tecumseh (1768 – 1813)

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Grand Council of Chiefs

1. Head:

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[img][/img]

2. Treasury:

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3. Justice:

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4. War Chief: Weyapiersenwah (c. 1743 – 1810)

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5. Navy: ???

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Candidates:
1.

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2.

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3.

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4. Buckongahelas (c. 1720 – May 1805)

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5. Tecumseh (1768 – 1813)

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[Dago Red]

Good stuff. Still monitoring this thread (9 years later) for when these factions are playable.

[Demokritos]

Ahum, there's quite a few incorrect pieces of info about the Amerindians on this page. For example, the chairman of the Iroquois grand council (technically the highest office in the Iroquois Confederacy) was always an Onondaga chief (royaner) called Tadodaho (or similar spelling), Buckongahelas was a Leni Lenape (not Shawnee) chief and none of the portraits in the post about Cheyennes depicts a Cheyenne. If IS is to be a historical mod, you guys need to do better research. If not, never mind.

[Cro_Hunger999]

Ahum, there's quite a few incorrect pieces of info about the Amerindians on this page. For example, the chairman of the Iroquois grand council (technically the highest office in the Iroquois Confederacy) was always an Onondaga chief (royaner) called Tadodaho (or similar spelling), Buckongahelas was a Leni Lenape (not Shawnee) chief and none of the portraits in the post about Cheyennes depicts a Cheyenne. If IS is to be a historical mod, you guys need to do better research. If not, never mind.

Easier said than done.... If IS is to be a historical mod, you guys need to do better research... Did you try researching the Amerindians? No. There are very few sources for me to find so it is hard to come up with a government for the Amerindians. There are either no sources about them or there are some but without portraits. The Cheyennes are the ones with the least info, I couldn't find any.

The Lenape aren't going to be a playable faction so I put Buckongahelas in the Shawnee faction. The Amerindians acted as a federacy at the time and tried to form it during the revolutionary wars so where Buckongahelas goes isn't really important.

About the Iroquois... The presented government is as accurate as it can be. If you think you can do better, be my guest. The IS team is small and could use an expert in Amerindian historical figures. When you find an "Ondonaga chief" that should be in the government with a date of birth and death and his portrait, please post it here.

Besides, the research isn't completed, the Amerindians aren't urgent.

[Demokritos]

Easier said than done.... If IS is to be a historical mod, you guys need to do better research... Did you try researching the Amerindians? No. There are very few sources for me to find so it is hard to come up with a government for the Amerindians. There are either no sources about them or there are some but without portraits. The Cheyennes are the ones with the least info, I couldn't find any.

The Lenape aren't going to be a playable faction so I put Buckongahelas in the Shawnee faction. The Amerindians acted as a federacy at the time and tried to form it during the revolutionary wars so where Buckongahelas goes isn't really important.

About the Iroquois... The presented government is as accurate as it can be. If you think you can do better, be my guest. The IS team is small and could use an expert in Amerindian historical figures. When you find an "Ondonaga chief" that should be in the government with a date of birth and death and his portrait, please post it here.

Besides, the research isn't completed, the Amerindians aren't urgent.

Here and below are a couple of examples of my research for Amerindians.

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Edit: Removed the load of Iroquois info first shown here as it did not fall into fertile soil, so appeared a waste of storage space for the site.

The latter was a post I made in the developper's forum for the Colonialism AD 1600 mod long ago. Recently made a similar OP about the Comanche in the developper's forum for the Colonies & Empires mod. I've acquired a fair bit of knowledge about the Amerindians in my years, and I've tried to share it with some mod teams, but I'm afraid I don't have time to do that so much ATM, so I'm restricted to point out the errors I can see in other researcher's findings. So keep researching and you'll find quite lot of useful facts.

BTW, here's an image of a more typical Cheyenne warrior (to the left).

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To my knowledge, the Cheyennes, just like the Sioux and most native nations, never shaved or plucked away the hair from their skulls. That was a practice common among the native cultures further to the east (the Pawnee, Osage etc west of Mississippi, many others east of that river).

[Cro_Hunger999]

The portraits I've found are listed as portraits of the Plains nations. The picture you've posted represents the 19th century...the game is situated in the 18th c. Still, you haven't presented me with actual historical figures and their portraits. There is no "keep looking". Finding the names of leading native figures isn't a big problem, but finding their portraits is. Actually they don't even have portraits as the Cheyenne lived far away from the European powers and the US. They made contacts in the 19th c and only then were their portraits made. So, in the game random portraits of Plains indians will be listed for the Cheyenne faction. It is still in development.

[Demokritos]

The portraits I've found are listed as portraits of the Plains nations. The picture you've posted represents the 19th century...the game is situated in the 18th c. Still, you haven't presented me with actual historical figures and their portraits. There is no "keep looking". Finding the names of leading native figures isn't a big problem, but finding their portraits is. Actually they don't even have portraits as the Cheyenne lived far away from the European powers and the US. They made contacts in the 19th c and only then were their portraits made. So, in the game random portraits of Plains indians will be listed for the Cheyenne faction. It is still in development.

Well, if you're interested in winning respect for your work I suggest a change in the word describing this part of the mod from "historical" to "semi-fictional".

Like I said, I have no time to do your research. If you cannot find pictures of Cheyennes from the 18th century, I suggest you use images of either Cheyennes from the 19th century or Plains Indians from 18th century that at least appear similar in style to the illustration that I provided above (no shaved heads), and declare that this is the case somewhere, not post pics of non-Cheyennes from 18th century and 19th century (like the image of the Kansa Indian you currently have for "Head Minister", for example, which is a painting made by George Catlin) to the public as if they were historical (Cheyennes).


BTW, only a very small part of the "Amerindians" acted as a federacy at that time and place (to be precise, the Amerindians were the people who inhabited all the Americas before the arrival of Europeans). This was called the Western Indian Confederacy or the Miami Confederacy. It included parts of both Shawnee and Leni Lenape (as many others). So if you want to be more historical in keeping Buckongahelas as a chief for that faction, I suggest you change the name of this side from "Shawnee" to the aforementioned confederacy. That way you're also free historically to include pictures of chiefs from many other tribes. The head of them would be the Miami chief Little Turtle.

[PikeStance]

This forum is for the development of all faction to be represented in IS v3. Everyone is welcome contribute. You can review other factions discussed and see a great deal of sharing. The information provided here are individual work of many fans of the mid helping make this mid as accurate as possible. Please take better care of your words. We would love for you to share but we prefer that it is done in a manner that will be productive. Thank you