Amerindians - Information & Discussion

[Lazy Knight]

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EMERGENT FACTIONS: SEMINOLES | COMANCHES | ILLINOIS

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Cherokee Nation by Paul Revere and the Raiders

Lead Developers

wangrin PikeStance

CHARACTERISTICS :
As Amerindian will not have artillery nor cavalry, their main strength will be ambush attack.
Their foot units will have :
range attack :

• better accuracy than European units
  
• better spotting distance than European units
  
• bow unit will be able to shot hidden (no noise)

hand-to-hand combat

• excellent hand-to-hand combat characteristics

other characteristics :

• scares_enemies
  
• fatigue_resistant
  
• heat_resistance or cold_resistance depending of tribes

Unit Lists

IROQUOIS IROQUOIS HISTORY : Iroquois league was composed of five nation untill 1720 and then 6 nations : Seneca (or Onondaga in Iroquois language) Cayuga (or Guyohkohnyoh in Iroquois language) Onondaga (or Onöñda'gega' in Iroquois language) Oneida (or Onayotekaono in Iroquois language) Mohawk (or Kanien'kehá:ka in Iroquois language) Tuscarora (or Ska-Ruh-Reh in Iroquois language) who join the Iroquois League in 1720 GEOGRAPHY : UNITS ROSTER : CAVALRY : no cavalry units (early / mid) maybe a light cavalry unit for latest era INFANTRY : chieftain musket + tomahawk Seneca warrior Mohawk warrior Oneida warrior Cayuga warrior Onondaga warrior bow + war club Seneca warrior Mohawk warrior Oneida warrior Cayuga warrior Onondaga warrior ARTILLERY : no artillery units

Building Chain

Building Chain

Technology Tree

Technology Tree

Graphics Development

Graphics Development

[The Vicar]

Alright, let me start this off.

The Native Americans are not intended to be a playable faction. We only included them in the Custom Battle selection for some diversity.

The Native Americans, instead, are a series of AI factions, with AI tweaks to make them behave differently than any other factions in the game. They should possess smaller stacks than other factions, and concentrate on raiding.

As far as the units go, they are all small. Entirely too small to really go toe-to-toe with any proper European military. Luckily, their unit costs are insanely small too, and so they are capable of affording a LOT of them. So if you go to war with these guys, be prepared for an entirely different sort of war than you see in Europe. These guys will swarm you. They will perform suicidal attacks and ambushes. They will come in close and let off one volley (a la Last of the Mohicans) before charging into your lines.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Every unit is different in some way.

Have fun playing against them, and again, I do love feedback.

[Dago Red]

The Native Americans are not intended to be a playable faction. We only included them in the Custom Battle selection for some diversity.

Can I get some clarification here... are they playable/unlocked factions in the campaign or no?
(i do not care about the custom battle mode much, just use it for testing).

If they are playable factions - what is it that is unintended as you say? I assume they are not much worked on and have some holes in the gameplay....

If they are not playable, why not? And can they be unlocked easily enough?

Many thanks in advance!

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

The only issue I have are purely in terms of the Inuit. I know you don't have any power of the regions, but the natives in that region at this time are the Innu. They are fairely related to the cree in terms of Linguistics and culture. They were referred to as the Naskapi in their tongue and were known to the French as being beyond the reach of missionaries. The land they dwell in, known today as Labrador, was known to them as Nitassinan.

While some did live on the coast, and did have some traditional fishing roots, they were mostly gathering from inland, and they are known for their use of Buckskin.

If you are able to get ahold of a copy of the Handbook of North American Indians: Subarctic, it has a lot of info for the nothern tribes.

Hopefully this isn't nit-picky.

[The Vicar]

No, it isn't nit-picky at all. But, quite frankly, the Inuit/Innu are a difficult faction to do (So difficult that if you look at the screenshots from CA's upcoming Warpath campaign, you'll see they took them out altogether).

And thanks for the book title. I'll definitely look into finding it somewhere.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

They are fairly difficult. I agree, because these people were mostly pacifists - both groups. Well until the Innu were tired of having the inuit settled in their lands by the Canadian/British government and had a short rebellion.But you'd basically have them fairly well represented with a simple name change if you felt like it.

[Wingate]

Although not intended to be played, since they don't have gentlemen, how do they go about "stealing technology" for the very limited tech tree they have available that allows them building upgrades?

Thanks

[Lazy Knight]

there is this things called "technology Osmosis" or something. It means, when all but one major faction have researched a technology, it becomes available to all factions. The building upgrades relying on tech for natives is only farming, too.

[Megas Methuselah]

You should have made the Hurons into the Three Fires Confederacy, which is quite probably the most underrated Native American power in North America. Whatever the case may be, the Huron's capital province corresponds to much of the Confederacy's heartland (particularly that of its most important members, the Ojibwe or Chippewa), with the capital city actually being one of the Confederacy's most important settlements.

[Lazy Knight]

We're only offering factions for campaign-play which we have worked a lot on and we think are fun to play. We don't intend for the others to be played. It will still work of course.

If you want to play with such a faction, there is a file unlocking them all in the optional files thread. But we don't want to hear any complaints about them then

[Dago Red]

I see, fair enough! I worked on Ancient Empires with Limes - the old RTR based realism mod, I perfectly understand. I'm currently mod shopping, and although I may try more than one I'd like to really dive into one of the hosted mods. Yours seems to me the most fitting for what I'm looking for - and nothing short of spectacular from what I've read.

In an ancient arena, I have clear favorites mighty Carthage, and wild Thrace but like to experience every well thought out faction. This time period holds much less interest for me, but the scope of it is seductive - grand global empires with many tactical / economic /cultural facets. However, one of my requirements is to also be able to unite the Iroquois nations with other Native allies and drive the Europeans into the sea (at least the British and colonies). So I deliberate some more....

[The Vicar]

Well, you can certainly do that with this mod.

But it will be difficult, because the gameplay/battle aspects of the Native American tribes are entirely different than with any other factions in this game, so you'll have to learn a whole different way of doing things.

And your technology tree is non-existant, and may even be entirely broken (as in, letting you research techs that don't do anything), and there isn't much in the way of buildings.

Nor can you build ships of any sort. So, you'll have to be satisfied with only Continental North & South America as your objective.

But, if you don't mind all those things, then play to your heart's content.

[Keyser]

I like the basic idea behind the indians revamp in IS, numerous small stack of raiders fit them rather well. However, while in vanilla they usually (the cherokee especially) overpowered the europeans wich wasn't very realist but added some challenge in the NA campaign, in my latest IS campaign they became VERY passive and are eaten easily and quickly by the spanish or the british.

Maybe adding a few larger "warband" to their roster (around twice the size of the raiders, but still smaller than most european units and more costly in upkeep) might help them a bit ? Or reducing even further the size of the american theater troops available to the european ? That way the long and costly option of sending a few metropolitan units of regulars might really change the flow of warfare.

Another thing, i didn't buy Warpath yet, but is there anything in this DLC that could be used by IS, or at least give some ideas for buildings and techs for the natives ?

[The Vicar]

is there anything in this DLC that could be used by IS, or at least give some ideas for buildings and techs for the natives ?

Yes, there is.

It's one of those things that are on the to-do list.

It's a long list.

[Border Patrol]

I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty damned sure the Pueblo were a Spanish dependency throughout literally the entire game's timespan. Wouldn't it make more sense to just scrap them altogether? CA had them in Texas instead of New Mexico, but New Mexico is most certainly in Spanish hands, not Pueblo.

Unless of course you like having a Southwestern Native force, then perhaps you could just rename them Apachean Tribes or some other hostile group. This is assuming you guys care about pedantic details (I'm guessing you've got bigger fish to fry).

[Sun Devil]

Yea it has always bugged me that the Pueblo are in Texas when they were actually in New Mexico/Arizona. Comanche were the dominant Texan tribe, but they are a plains tribe. The Natives along the Texas coast were very poor and didn't really wage war.I think it would be better to just give New Mexico to Pueblo and Texas to Spain. Apache would be a more suitable name, since they were the only war faring pueblo type tribe I believe.

[KairMuur_Martian]

Greetings to ALL and to all a Merry New Year,

There are many more important things to chat about other than some world inside of a PC/MAC, but I wanted to know have the Imperial Splendour devs instated the 18 "new" technologies incorporated from the Warpath Campaign DLC (these questions would be directed towards IS Team)? The following listed: Spirit Medicine, the Call of the Wild and Dreamwalking, etc? and the two new agent types from Warpath, including all of the original GC agents from ETW first release? And of course these would all be for the n8tive AI factions to use as well, correct?

Its fairly urgent, but get to me when time permits you too. My comp is not taking a liking to me ATM so I cannot review this. Great Job to IS devs again. Your mental vigor and unprecedented creativity does not go unheard or unappreciated.

-Muur

[Lazy Knight]

Unique techs were on the list at some point, but since we stopped working on the mod, we won't implement anything.

The tech trees are designed for the European factions and are thus absolute nonsense for Natives or Middle Eastern factions.

As for the Agents / Improvements from Warpath, this is a problem because it would only work for those who own warband, and we want to keep compatibility for ETW without any extras.


If you want to implement the tech trees yourself, check out "The Great DB Manual" in the Mod Workshops tutorial section, it's a page back or so, but it explains pretty much everything.

[KairMuur_Martian]

Prosperity to you Lazy Knight,

Following the starting of this New Year, I hope you are getting all the goals re-envisioned and the like.

Pleasantries aside, I had a chance to look over the tech trees with the vanilla "Warpath Campaign" and can confirm the absurdity of how the tech start and how they end up. I wont go into the boring discussion of something you already know. But I am satisfied with how they are in IS's campaign so I wont change it, not a bit.

And thanks for the info in the latter sentence. I did review your manual, and I'll use it when I need it, but I can say you are very thorough in explanations but make it seem easily understandable. I do not think I am "leveled up enough" to +rep, otherwise...

Thanks again.

-Muur

[wangrin]

Book :
"The Canadian Iroquois and the Seven Years' War", by D. Peter MacLeod, Canadian War Museum, Dundurn Press ed.

The participation of the Iroquois of Akwasasne, Kanesetake (Oka), Kahnawake and Oswegatchie in the Seven Years' War is a long neglected topic. The consequences of this struggle still shape Canadian history. The book looks at the social and economic impact of the war on both men and women in Canadian Iroquois communities.The Canadian Iroquois provides an enhanced appreciation both of the role of Amerindians in the war itself and of their difficult struggle to lead their lives within the unstable geopolitical environment created by European invasion and settlement.